Flying Pigs

What can one say???

":::Jerry::::" wrote

I can't comment on the USA situation, but I thought we were talking about the UK? I cannot think of one single UK (post-grouping) loco type where the cylinders were built integral with the main frames. Generally in the UK the frames were cut from steel plate, whereas cylinders were almost exclusively separate castings.

John.

Yes, it may be rough going for a stretch Winnie said we were two people separated by a common language. I'm sure that eventually I will "get it" and be able to use the proper terminology, until then I'll have to abide the "puckerbutts" who, although they had to learn everything too, demand immediate perfection from everyone else.

arises when US terms are

applied to the loco

that we had been

better. The following year

engineering advice only to

I'll give you more than that. Not only is a railway engine driver called an engineer, but the fellow who drives a fire truck (also called a fire engine) is called the engineer. The person who monitors and/or operates the engines on large aircraft and the person who operates the engines on a ship are also called engineers. We think nothing of it and generally do not have any difficulty discerning contextual use.

Surely you can manage a broader insult than just the Welsh???

arises when US terms are

applied to the loco

that we had been

better. The following year

engineering advice only to

Where's the context in: Q."What job do you do?" A."I'm an engineer".

I can assure you that the fellow winding the mixture knobs on the Jumbo IS qualified as an engineer and the old-salt with his eyes on the control panel down below has a fair amount of university training.

What kind of engineer? Would be the next logical question. Actually, over here the person replying would most likely say that he was an electrical engineer, or a mechanical engineer, or a locomotive engineer or something of that nature rather than just engineer. But I get your point. Anyhow, that is pretty much the way we do it. What else can I say?

qualified as an engineer and

university training.

I don't believe that there are any mixture knobs on a jumbo, but, again, I get your point.

How do you distinguish between a locomotive engineer and a locomotive engineer? (Ok, I getting silly now :-)

qualified as an engineer and

of university training.

Yeah, I'm more used to sitting in the passenger seat of light piston engined aircraft.

frames /

exclusively

So, by that definition the frame spreaders / spacers are not part of the frames either?...

I didn't say that they were integral with the frame plates but that they were integral with the frame structure - there would have to very good reason for a workshop to split the cylinders from the frames due to the work involved in setting the frames / cylinder (alignment) up again.

I have heard the term 'running gear' used to describe the various gubbins below the running/footplate. On the driver/engineer dispute, I deal on a daily basis with French drivers- they regularly use both 'conducteur' and 'mecanicien', whilst I have also heard (amongst older drivers) the term 'machiniste'. One thing which has never been satisfactorily explained to me is how 'chauffeur', originally meaning 'fireman', has been used as a term in both French and English for a professional car driver, and is also used in French for a HGV driver. Brian

qualified as an engineer and

university training.

Except, in the UK for a few years now, one can (legitimately and in the eyes of the various engineering institutions) be an engineer without university training.

Steve

Traditionally French Engine Drivers, while not Professional Engineers, were trained mechanics expected to be able to make their own repairs. Keith

There isn't a standard railway term, hence E.S.Cox introduces his chapter on the ' Design of the Mechanical Parts' with the following sentence: 'Although the word chassis pertains more to the automobile than to the railway engine, it may here be accepted as a convenient word to cover the whole of the locomotive other than the boiler and its appendages.'

So John you are right, even the loco designers did not have an alternative in this case, frames being only a part of it.

His discussion was divided into : Cylinders and valve gear, Main frames, Wheels and axles including axleboxes, Springs,

Keith

One thing which has

OK, I'll get silly too. A locomotive engineer is most likely a mechanical engineer, while a locomotive engineer is an engine driver. Anyway, that's how we do it over here, I don't know what else I can say, or if I should even say anything else. Maybe this thread needs to die. I think it is exhausted. I would much rather pursue Flying Pigs than engineering semantics.

Thanks for that site, Steve- looks to be interesting. Brian

The french have used conducteur for at least 30 years but mechanicien / machiniste stems from the tradition of the driver "owning" a locomotive and caring for its every need sauf extremis! The heavy shop then takes over. Until recently the term ingénieur was applied to the diplomé and was much respected unlike in the UK.

Even the Royal Navy applied the insult of equating mechanicians with artificers.

Chauffeur of course followed from steam road vehicles.

Peter A Montarlot

Well Brian, now that you have mentioned "fireman", I do remember as a schoolboy being mightily confused between "fireman" as a "fighter of house fires" and as a "locomotive stoker". One keeps the fire going, and the other one puts it out!

Then in later life I discovered that every theatre has a "fireman", and I still don't know whether his job is to keep the theatre warm or to stop it burning down!

And that was before you drew me to the connection with "chauffeur"... which, until you prompted me to discover the link with "to chafe", I had always assumed to descend from "cheval", making the "chauffeur" as "the man in charge of the horse", which would be logical, but entirely wrong!

So, thank you for that!

Happy New Year, Steve

When I belonged to the local Little Theatre, many moons ago, they were required to have a fire watcher, who sat beside the emergency exit armed with a soda-acid fire extinguisher in case anyone decided to burn the place down.

In Canada, anyone offering services as an engineer without the requisite qualifications is liable to prosecution by the provincial Professional Engineers Association.