The Shanghai stock market is in trouble too, only newly listed
companies doing at all well.
Cheers
Richard
- posted 13 years ago
Hornby price increases
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- posted 13 years ago
Reminds me of the late seventies early eighties when new price lists
were released monthly. I guess its down to the exchange moving against
us as well as its all made abroad these days.
Chris
Chris
- posted 13 years ago
It would take a long time for that to happen. Talking to a Cornish cycle
manufacturer Taiwan, near China, can turn out a bicycle at the same
price as the components could be purchased in the UK.
Given the quality jump since Hornby moved production to China they would not be able to make the same in the UK for the current price.
Chris
Given the quality jump since Hornby moved production to China they would not be able to make the same in the UK for the current price.
Chris
- posted 13 years ago
"Jerry" wrote
Indeed, but not at the mercy of some third party manufacturer. I suspect they are able to control their costs more readily than Hornby.
John.
Indeed, but not at the mercy of some third party manufacturer. I suspect they are able to control their costs more readily than Hornby.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
"Chris" wrote
It was suggested to me a short while ago, that Hornby may have to increase their prices by 25% or so in the not-too-distant future.
The recent significant drop in value of the Pound makes that an increasingly optimistic scenario, especially with oil generally priced in US$, and the escalating cost or raw materials and Chinese labour costs.
We may see a situation with the UK becoming economically marginalised on the world stage that manufacturing here once again becomes a real possibility.
John.
It was suggested to me a short while ago, that Hornby may have to increase their prices by 25% or so in the not-too-distant future.
The recent significant drop in value of the Pound makes that an increasingly optimistic scenario, especially with oil generally priced in US$, and the escalating cost or raw materials and Chinese labour costs.
We may see a situation with the UK becoming economically marginalised on the world stage that manufacturing here once again becomes a real possibility.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
Rubbish, and we have not taken shipping cost into account yet...
- posted 13 years ago
"Jerry" wrote
Really? Which part of my comment was rubbish?
Shippings costs are an insignificant component in the price of any railway model. It's not that long since it cost less to ship a 45' container from China to Southampton, than the same container cost to move on to Manchester. Figures of GBP100.00 and 125.00 respectively were quoted (around five years ago from memory). You can get an awful lot of model locos in such a container, so even if they've tripled the cost per item is small.
John.
Really? Which part of my comment was rubbish?
Shippings costs are an insignificant component in the price of any railway model. It's not that long since it cost less to ship a 45' container from China to Southampton, than the same container cost to move on to Manchester. Figures of GBP100.00 and 125.00 respectively were quoted (around five years ago from memory). You can get an awful lot of model locos in such a container, so even if they've tripled the cost per item is small.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
The part about the UK not being able to control supply and
manufacturing costs.
No they are not, a 45ft container is a 45ft container, it's matter no one jot what is inside it.
It's not that long since it cost less to ship a 45' container from Except that one would not be moving 45ft containers *into the UK* if Hornby were still manufacturing in Margate!
That's GBP225.00 extra on the cost (remember that they need to pay both for the China > Southampton and Southampton > Margate/warehouse), *if* the costs have tripled that's ~ GBP700 that you need to get back before you even start to sell the items...
No they are not, a 45ft container is a 45ft container, it's matter no one jot what is inside it.
It's not that long since it cost less to ship a 45' container from Except that one would not be moving 45ft containers *into the UK* if Hornby were still manufacturing in Margate!
That's GBP225.00 extra on the cost (remember that they need to pay both for the China > Southampton and Southampton > Margate/warehouse), *if* the costs have tripled that's ~ GBP700 that you need to get back before you even start to sell the items...
- posted 13 years ago
A 40ft (smaller than above) container has internal volume of
12m x 2.3m x 2.4m, which is 66.24 cubic meters and a payload of 26 tonnes.
A typical Hornby model box is 40cm x 15cm x10cm, or 0.006 cubic meters (John can correct me if the box size is way out, he'll have a shop full of them!).
So, dividing one volume by another, 11,040 boxes inside the container. With 26 tonnes of payload, the weight is only exceeded if the box is more than 2.3kg. I don't think model train items are that heavy (!), so the limiting factor is volume.
At £700 transport, that is GBP0.063 per item. Even if the cardboard cases, pallets, etc. half the number of model boxes in the container, its still only 12.6p per box.
Is that really significant on purchase price ?
The incredibly low cost of moving containers around is one reason there is so many cheap Chinese products in shops (not just model shops, but everything).
- Nigel
A typical Hornby model box is 40cm x 15cm x10cm, or 0.006 cubic meters (John can correct me if the box size is way out, he'll have a shop full of them!).
So, dividing one volume by another, 11,040 boxes inside the container. With 26 tonnes of payload, the weight is only exceeded if the box is more than 2.3kg. I don't think model train items are that heavy (!), so the limiting factor is volume.
At £700 transport, that is GBP0.063 per item. Even if the cardboard cases, pallets, etc. half the number of model boxes in the container, its still only 12.6p per box.
Is that really significant on purchase price ?
The incredibly low cost of moving containers around is one reason there is so many cheap Chinese products in shops (not just model shops, but everything).
- Nigel
- posted 13 years ago
"Jerry" wrote
But I didn't say that. All I said was that Bachmann: 'are able to control their costs more readily than Hornby' and that because they have their own factories whereas Hornby rely on a third party to produce their models.
John.
But I didn't say that. All I said was that Bachmann: 'are able to control their costs more readily than Hornby' and that because they have their own factories whereas Hornby rely on a third party to produce their models.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
"Jerry" wrote
Of course it matters what's inside of it. If you had one Bachmann OO-scale model inside then the whole cost of shipping the container would be charged to the one model. If you have ten thousand locos inside said container then the cost is shared between all ten thousand.
I never suggested otherwise.
I believe Hornby ship into London (not Southampton) and I only gave the Southampton figures because I had them to hand.
Even so if the cost of shipping has tripled to GBP700 and there are 10,000 items in the container then the extra cost per item is only GBP0.07 per item - not exactly significant in the overall picture.
John
Of course it matters what's inside of it. If you had one Bachmann OO-scale model inside then the whole cost of shipping the container would be charged to the one model. If you have ten thousand locos inside said container then the cost is shared between all ten thousand.
I never suggested otherwise.
I believe Hornby ship into London (not Southampton) and I only gave the Southampton figures because I had them to hand.
Even so if the cost of shipping has tripled to GBP700 and there are 10,000 items in the container then the extra cost per item is only GBP0.07 per item - not exactly significant in the overall picture.
John
- posted 13 years ago
Not so sure about that, Bachmann UK may have the ability to ask for a spec
at a set price but have to accept what they are given - they can hardly say
to their parernt company no thanks we'll take our custom elsewhere.
Whereas Hornby could spread their manufacturing between several factories
and if they dont like one then move to another.
Cheers, Simon
Cheers, Simon
- posted 13 years ago
"simon" wrote
No but there should be a desire by the parent company to allow their subsidiaries to be as competitive as possible bearing in mind market conditions. They may be able to ride out a storm better in the short term.
Which of course Hornby Group do, with various ranges manufactured not only in China, but India and in the UK too, but they are still beholden to third party manufacturers, and it may not be too easy to replace them in the short term.
John.
No but there should be a desire by the parent company to allow their subsidiaries to be as competitive as possible bearing in mind market conditions. They may be able to ride out a storm better in the short term.
Which of course Hornby Group do, with various ranges manufactured not only in China, but India and in the UK too, but they are still beholden to third party manufacturers, and it may not be too easy to replace them in the short term.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
Especially when an existing manufacturer could be "difficult" over
returning moulds and tools. I believe there was some concern along
these lines when Hornby were taking over Airfix, but all the moulds
were in possesion of the French company that went under (and thus in
possesion og=3Df the French receivers).
Andrew
Andrew
- posted 13 years ago
True there should be, but the global companies I've suffered or heard about
dont work like that. They are run and staffed by individuals who tend to
have their own agendas for making themselves and there own areas look good
and to hell with anyone else.
Again true, but they can write contracts which cover certain eventualities, but most important its beneficial to both parties to work together. they have the incentive that money doesnt change hands unless targets are reached. Its one of the reasons that certain services are best contracted out rather than managed in house.
Cheers, Simon
Again true, but they can write contracts which cover certain eventualities, but most important its beneficial to both parties to work together. they have the incentive that money doesnt change hands unless targets are reached. Its one of the reasons that certain services are best contracted out rather than managed in house.
Cheers, Simon
- posted 13 years ago
Just like the government...
[...]
[...]
- posted 13 years ago
"simon" wrote
Kader Industries is pretty much a dictatorial operation as far as overall management is concerned.
John.
Kader Industries is pretty much a dictatorial operation as far as overall management is concerned.
John.
- posted 13 years ago
A problem that any subsidiary company can suffer from, and IIRC
Bachmann has, is that of total manufacturing capacity preventing
further production runs, at least Hornby can (assuming they own the
tooling) jump ship to some degree.
- posted 13 years ago
Doesnt suprise me in the least. Bet company philosphy is 'we never make
mistakes' - it shows in the local attitude.
Makes it very difficult for Bachmann UK if every serious decision has to go
back to the parent before anything happens and if true then could explain
the slow response for whats going on in local company.
Cheers, Simon
Cheers, Simon
- posted 13 years ago
Yep and theyre the worst cos they cant sack anyone - just promote them
somewhere else. Even this government has realised contracting out can be
much better than in house. unfortunately however, this government couldnt
manage their way out of a paper bag. Appearences is everything, results
nothing. Now Margeret Thatcher - oh thats a diofferent group.
Cheers, Simon
Cheers, Simon
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