Hornby price increases

If we *had* listened, Thatcher would not have been re elected in '83 - remember Arthur Scargill (and others) warned us about her true intensions/policies should she be re elected - unfortunately Michael Foot had allowed what has become know as the "Longest suicide note in history" to become the Labour Parties Manifesto whilst the Liberal and SDP parties were splitting the centre left vote, meaning that Thatcher didn't win, the others lost and in no way did she actually obtain a 'mandate for change'.

The conclusion always reached is that if you have the booking, it is the railway companies' problem, not yours.

Even publicly-owned transport has its twirlies trying it on, of course.

In the past I've been on a few Hull Trains services where the grippers have collected up GNER-only tickets with reservations for what are actually HT services, so that HT could reclaim the money off GNER. Again, not the passenger's problem.

Glad to see that you have so publicly demonstrated how wrong you are by snipping everything in the futile hope that people won't notice your ignorance.

To be fair, it's not your fault. A significant number of people do assume that they need to "understand" ticketing.

Now, perhaps all model shops should be run by the state. There was a woman in my local shop last week who didn't understand the difference between N and 00 track.

Yet they don't.

But you couldn't - that is the whole point! I guess you could have tried saying "hello BR, I see your ticket is GBP3000 (or whatever), I'm offering you GBP2000 instead", but I suspect the reply would not have been very polite.

WAGN had introduced something which hadn't existed before (I suppose it is possible both WAGN and their critics were lying about this, but it is hard to see why they would do so). The ex-BR ticket *still existed*, yet people moaned.

But "normal" passengers don't need to understand it, any more than Little Johnny needs to understand the difference between S4 and P4 to drive Thomas around the living room floor on Christmas day.

I thought you said that the ticket system was simple, the above leave the ordinary passenger [1] at the mercy of the TOC employees knowing (or being honest) that another TOCs ticket is valid.

The fact remains, one can't get any simpler - for the *average* customer - than one company, one fair structure, travel on 99% of trains with any ticket - something that is not possible in the age of the TOCs [2], something that was an every-day occurrence in the days of BR...

[1] those who have not studied the who T&C of all the TOCs [2] how ever much you try and suggest that it is

Liar.

POT, KETTLE, BLACK...

That is the point, passengers should not need to (and didn't need to under BR), all they want to be able to do is buy a ticket from A to B...

Which part of "not the passenger's problem" are you struggling with?

The whole point of the example above is that the tickets were not valid, but that is a problem for the operators to worry about afterwards, not the passengers. As far as the pax are concerned, the tickets were valid. "Normal" pax don't care about what happens behind the scenes, they just want to get from A to B.

There are plenty of people round here who still talk about Network South East and Connex*, which shows how little people need to know about who the operators are.

*and not always while crossing themselves, or spitting. :)

We have national conditions so you don't have to (okay, pedantically NIR probably use different ones. But they are state-owned, so that can't be blamed, and weren't part of BR either).

Ever seen the "National Rail" brand? Its logo might seem familiar.

Do you ever travel buy train, or are you simply going by something someone told you? Or just inventing this out of some paranoid fantasy?

However much you try to deny it, the simple fact is that we have inter-availability of "normal" (non-airport, non-Eurostar) tickets. It is notable you haven't offered an example of where we don't have this.... even Hull Trains and Grand Central accept National Rail tickets, and they are open access operators which have never had anything to do with BR.

Perhaps the problem is with your comprehension, rather than the system? Obviously some basic knowledge is required - no railway, nationalised or private, is going to get you out of bed, wash you and dress you before your trip.

Well, ok, staff on the sleepers might get you out of bed, I supppose.

It really shows how clueless you are if that is the best that you can come up with!

BTW, your mum smells.

Oh right, so all those who bought "Awayday" [1] tickets and other off-peak discounts were just imagining it - The only person who is showing their ignorance is you, are you to young to remember BR, perhaps...

[1] which didn't restrict what trains could be used on the return portion of travel, I often used to travel to London after the morning peak period and return during the evening peak period.

..and what part of "you are at the mercy of the TOC employees knowing (or being honest) that another TOCs ticket is valid.". The fact is, if the passenger doesn't understand the ticking rules they are left open to employee ignorance or dishonesty - do you seriously expect everyone to a/. have the time to study the various T&C of travel (of every TOC) and be capable of doing so even if they have the time?

Exactly, under BR 99% of tickets were valid and those that were not it was obvious (to the passengers) what restrictions were being placed, such as time of day or (one of the very few) premium/named trains.

Tell that to someone who is being asked to pay a fine (plus buy a 'replacement' valid ticket) because they have accidentally got on the wrong train - easy to do when stations have no staff these days - or a TOC employee who either doesn't know the rules themselves or is being less than honest...

Exactly, they just want to turn up and travel, without having to decide what train company to use, or should be used.

I think that rather proves my point!

So we have one TOC do we?...

So why the announcements to the effect of (for example) "Virgin train tickets are valid on this/all services" after derailments and other operating problems?...

It

Wrong, a passenger should be able to travel without any knowledge, they should be able to simply ask for a ticket from A - B, not have to worry if the TOCs train is valid, not have to worry about the route etc. ALL of this was possible under BR, it's not possible today - QED.

- no railway, nationalised or

The "I'm alright, f*ck you" attitude that far to many have these-days IOW...

Um, you know there are still off discounts, yes? That is why there is a concept of "off peak" in the first place.

As many people still do (to the annoyance of some commuters, it must be said)

I suggest that you re-read what you originally said, way up, if you want to carry on trolling please troll yourself and do it news:alt.troll

FUS

Are you hoping that if you say this often enough it will become true?

"Premium trains?" Thank goodness that sort of complication has now gone. Though a while ago you appeared to be arguing this didn't happen in the past!

See above.

So you are actually agreeing with me. Can you get this into your thick skull - under the system currently in place in the UK, the train operator does not matter.

Even if you have chosen to buy a ticket only valid on the 12:15 from Sodor Parkway, you don't need to know the operator, just know which train is the 12.15 (continental-style train service numbers might help, but have we ever had them in .uk? Virgin tried it, and Eurostar have them).

If you object to the whole concept of train-specifc ticketing - perhaps because of the way it lets the "lower orders" travel (when I were a lad students wouldn't dream of travelling first class like wot they do now), then why not take on the airlines and ferry companies first?

SNCF is about as state run as you can get, and they also do train-specific discounted tickets (called Prems). DB does it, SJ does (and a guard refused to even discuss letting me upgrade onboard).

Yet you are claiming people need to know the operator. If that were true, how would these have passengers survived the past few years? (as you are obviously rather out of touch with the UK network, you may not know that NSE is long-dead, and Connex went a few years ago).

It doesn't matter if there is one or 99. That is irrelevant. We have one set of terms and conditions, and all the TOCs have to agree to it. The Open Access (HT and GC) operators might not technically have to, but AFAIK they do (not sure about the Jacobite or NYMR's open access arm, but that is rather specialist - and we know what good old BR once thought about letting preserved kettles onto their tracks).

For the holders of train-specific tickets, when the specific train isn't going to run. Did BR really never tell people to use the MML if the ECML was blocked?

Which whey can. Unlike state-run RENFE, here they don't even need to figure out what type of train it is and then find the right ticket window.

(well, travelling "without /any/ knowledge" could a bit risky. Ask the tourists wandering around the city of Leeds looking for the castle. One might hope pax would establish which Berwick/Bradford/Gillingham etc they need before setting off)

not have to

Which they don't.

Beyond the trivial (eg a Middlesbrough - Whitby ticket is obviously not valid from Thurso to St Ives) they don't have to worry about the route.

Do you believe in fairies?

So it is the NHS you need, not a railway company?

Thank you for agreeing with my point, finally.

"Arthur Figgis" wrote

Nope, this was recently tested in court and the TOC won.

John.

I've not seen it mentioned on uk.railway. Was the passenger taking the p*ss, perhaps?

So your only point, as much as you had one, was that you object to the existence of train-specific tickets? Fair enough - you tell the students, pensioners, small businesses and tight gits that they should be limited to (more expensive) open tickets, because you personally are too dense to cope with the concept of a train-specific ticket.

The existence of train-specific tickets is hardly a private vs public issue, as SNCF Prems, idTGV et el show. Better tell the airlines and ferries that service-specific tickets are Bad Things, too.

If you think Standard Open tickets could be offered at train-specific prices with the UK public's attitude to tax, I have a bridge to sell you; though it would seem you already have one.

Anyway, as (a) the paint on my model is dry enough for me to start the rigging (b) showing where you are wrong feels like steeling sweets from a small disabled child whose kitten has just died (probably) does, I think I have better things to do than continue to impart clue.

Rigging - wot you doing ?

Cheers, Simon