Hornby price increases

True but ministers can not be expected to know every detail of the work there department does and have to rely on the civil service to advise them. Looking at the calibre of transport ministers and the length of tenure they have had it is wonder we have a transport system at all. The current minister is one of the worst examples.

Chris

Reply to
Chris
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A quango was set up for the first and second round of franchising, OFRF and then SRA. Its now back in the hands of the DfT civil servants now.

Chris

Reply to
Chris

As with anything there is not one size that fits all and your choice is makes perfect sense and is probably the same for others living in similar locations. Different for people living in towns.

Chris

Reply to
Chris

Railcards were introduced by BR to encourage occasional users on to the railways in first place to get more revenue as BR was always run as a business not a social service. Perhaps we should remove the huge discount that commuters enjoy on their season tickets so that ordinary fares could be reduced?

Chris

Reply to
Chris

Or anything. Except maybe mathematicians and medics.

Look how many people moan like mad about teachers struggling to control

30 screaming thugs, yet they themselves can't use their own real world experience to control 2.4 kids who are little angels...
Reply to
Arthur Figgis

At the last election for London mayor (not STV), one of the local rags printed two box saying something to the effect of "How to vote 'Anything But Boris'" and one saying "... 'Anything But Ken'"

Reply to
Arthur Figgis

(Trains take dogs)

So, of course, is the decision to be made when you are travelling into central London when the congestion charge is in force and you fancy a pint on the way home...

Reply to
Arthur Figgis

How about just charging the lower fare without the need for the customer needing a special bit of card/plastic - even more people might actually travel then - why is that simple concept so difficult for some to grasp?

How many people remember 'Red Ken' and his early GLC [1] '80s travel anywhere on the LU (and LT?) for a 10p single fare scheme, more people than ever used - and probably since - used public transport in London and there wasn't a travel card in sight, PT being run as a true service (to society) rather than as a means for a quick buck...

[1] another thing the 'Blue Witch' Thatcher got rid of out of shear spite.
Reply to
Jerry

Yes they can, if it's a major bit of legislation, their re-election might depend on it - apart from it being part of their job description (what you said above is a bit like claiming that school teachers can't be expected to know what the school kids in their charge are doing nor control what they do)!

and have to rely on the civil service to advise

Whilst one of the best, and it's strange that he was a 1980s Tory minister [1], lost his job because he spoke the truth and dared to think out side the box (just like Frank Fields did in another department 20 years later), both paid with their jobs.

[1] I of course speak of Norman Fowler (now Lord Fowler), he recognised that PT had to be funded/run as a social service
Reply to
Jerry

They could hand out free beer and five pound notes as well.

Where would you put the extra people? If the answer is "buy more trains", how are you going to pay for them - and in some cases, how are you going to pay for the infrastructure upgrades needed to fit the longer trains in?

Bus and underground traffic has continued to grow in both pass-km and journey stages, and is now higher than back then: see page 17 of

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graphs.

The London Underground is creaking at the seams. There would be nowhere to put any more passengers, unless you can persuade them to move to Roding Valley. When I'm unfortunate enough to have to use the Jubilee Line from London Bridge to Canary Wharf in a morning I expect to have to let at least one train go before I can physically get on one. Victoria LU station gets closed because of the crowding.

The travel card (and its close relative the capped smart card) are now very popular products, and there would be outrage if they got rid of them. If you mean rail card, it is down to demand management and boosting off-peak travel.

I used to commute off-peak so that I could use a rail card. If it was the same fare in the peak, I might have been tempted to join the people crammed in the luggage racks and toilets of the peak trains, which doesn't really benefit anyone.

Fares Fair was killed of because Bromley objected to paying for a system which didn't serve the borough.

Reply to
Arthur Figgis

Yes but how many teachers can cope with 30 'others' but not their own ?

Cheers, Simon

Reply to
simon

How many teachers decide not to have any kids of their own?

Reply to
MartinS

"Jerry" wrote

Not just the GLC - South Yorkshire had an amazing subsidised bus (and train) network, with prices so cheap (and car parking so expensive in the centre of Sheffield) that you'd have been a total idiot not to use public transport.

Of course Maggie didn't like that either.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

"Arthur Figgis" wrote

So we went for the alternative - build more roads and squeeze more cars into town centres. Which would have been the more expensive - more trains (and buses) or more roads & more congestion?

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Exactly, what this country needs is an integrated PT system, not a fragmented excuse of a system, a system being run for one reason only - to make money for directors bonuses and share dividends, if a TOC could get away with using cattle trucks [1] they would if it meant saving them spending money?...

[1] in fact some who suffered Connex in the south and south-east said that cattle wagons would be preferable to the uncared for rolling stock that they were having to endure - at least cattle wagons got a hose-down, inside and out, once in a while!
Reply to
Jerry

  1. You wouldn't then be able to charge higher fares to those who are able and willing to pay them, or do you give them a special bit of plastic instead that forces them to pay more?
  2. Overcrowding would be even worse at peak times.

  1. If people would be tempted by lower fares, why do more peole not take advantage of existing discounts available such as off peak travel and rail cards?

During the summer holidays, Arriva busses run a promotion called "five for a fiver" Five people for =A35 return from Aylesbury to Oxford calling at a number of population centres on the way. Were the busses full of families taking advantage? it didn't look that way whenever we used it. Were the roads around the park and ride any less busy? Didn't look like it.

MBQ

Reply to
manatbandq

Integrated with what? If I have to drive 10 miles to the nearest station for a 10 mile ride into the city and then walk or take a bus to my place of work, I may as well drive the whole way. The fact is that places of work, commercial centres and poulation centres do not, for many, people correspond with the availability of PT. If you mandate that PT grows to serve everyone, then who is going to pay the subsidies? Rail will only ever serve narrow corridors along it's route. Busses in rural areas will never compete on speed with the car due to the need to pick up and set down passengers. Whether you like it or not, the car is part of the solution, not the problem.

If the price is right...

Reply to
manatbandq

The needs of society, industry, and leisure etc, rather than just being integrated with the world of profit and greed! Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, some people will have no choice in living 10 miles away from the nearest PT service (or be in employment that means PT isn't an option) but the vast majority do not - for them PT is, or would be (if it was run on need rather than profit), an option that they should be encouraged to use and sometimes that encouragement needs to be of the arm twisting sort. This also goes for were industry (and housing) is sited - and I don't mean repeating of the mistakes made in the '50s and '60s either, more like learning from those and the mistakes of the '80s and '90s.

Reply to
Jerry

Err, why would anyone do that?!

No more than, peak and off peak fare would still remain, my point was about the need for a special card, if too many people got themselves travel cards now the problem you suggest could happen anyway!

Because the fare structure is over complicated and the need for travel cards.

But the average family is four (well 4.2 actually, if we want to be pedantic), then what if Dad (or Mum) is at work (and remember that most grandparents now don't live with or near their grandchildren), were does a family get 5 people from? What was the actual T&C of the offer, the name of it certain gives the impression that there had to be a group of 5 people to take advantage thus many would not even both enquiring any further - never mind taking advantage of it...

Reply to
Jerry

At a cost - and I doubt Lanide would be able to keep her legs crossed for 6.5 hours!

No contest - nothing short of wild horses would drag me to London anymore! Seriously though, my point was that for those who don't want to go to London, Glasgow/Enginburgh, or points directly inbetween the train operators seem to be completely uninterested (yes, I know there are some remaining cross-country services, but they aren't exactly comprehensive). Whilst a believer in rail, I gave up trying to persuade others years ago because they hold all the aces!

Cheers Richard

Reply to
beamendsltd

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