Mallard and Teak Coaches

I have no idea - but these people might have:

"Barry Higginbottom" wrote

I believe that 2nd class was phased out before the time that Mallard was introduced, so any train would likely be a mix of 1st and 3rd class, with a bias towards the latter, and don't forget the Restaurant car on many trains, generally splitting the two classes of coaches.

Practically impossible to do that. If current practice applied, then the first class would be situated at the *London* end of most trains.

John.

Hi

I have being doing something similiar with the scotsman.

I have been told that the coaches were mirrored for that train so that the loco was run around to the other end without the coaches being turned.

Andrew

The message from Barry Higginbottom contains these words:

Second class had disappeared from the LNER by that time.

There was no need to turn the coaches - except for the observation coach which, for obvious reasons had to be at the back of the train with the windows facing backwards. It was turned on a loco turntable, but I have no knowledge of how this was done - clearly the coach couldn't supply the vacuum to power the turntable. I've seen photos of the coach on a turntable but I have assumed that some other power source was being used.

(Pedant mode on) From _most_ of the LNER but the new coach sets for the "Hook Continental" (Hook of Holland via Harwich ferry service) which were built in 1938 included all three classes to conform to continental practice. All "normal" LNER services had long abandonned 2nd class. (Pedant mode off)

No. All coach "sets" had a brake compartment positioned at or very near both ends. If coaches had had to be turned at the London end they would similarly have had to be turned at the other end; as would trains which reversed but did not run anywhere near London. An lot of work.

As this thread is about teak coaches there would have been no question of an observation coach being involved. These were built for and run solely with the "Coronation" train of 1937 and even bore the train name on their ends. This was a steel panelled train painted Marlborough grey and Garter blue so the observation cars would have been a complete livery missmatch for teak coaches. Teak coaches (Varnished teak or steel panels painted to resemble teak) were the bread-and-butter coaches of the LNER, used on their everyday trains. Any such trrain to which "Mallard" was attached could equally well have been hauled by almost any other of their express passenger locomotives.

Hope this helps, Alex. W. Stirrat

It was quite simple to turn a coach on a turntable. You did exactly what you did with a non-vaccuum fitted frieght locomotive of which the railways had very many right up to the end of steam. You either powered it round if there was any vacuum remaining in the reservoir tank on the turntable, cranked it round manually if the rurntable was fitted with hand cranks geared to the drive or just pushed it round be applying manual pressure to the end of the table

A good source is Michael Harris' book on LNER coaches. The teak coaches were built from 1924 (compartment door stock) and 1931 (end vestibule stock) for the main express trains. The LNER build special stock for the high speed services so the teak coaches would remain on the general express trains.

Often the trains were 1st class at London end / Dining / 3rd class at country end. The high speed trains had their compartments on the east side (more picturesque) - but express trains were probably pretty random. Brake composites would be detached at intermediate stations for secondary locations (eg Scarborough) located at whichever end was more operationally convenient. The LNER were not great users of composite coaches - more likely to be single classes.

The "teak" trains would comprise more than just LNER coaches - also ex- Joint Stock (from either York or Doncaster) and articulated stock. Basically anything with Pullman gangways.

At the same time as Gresley produced Mallard, his steel sided (but teak painted) coaches were appearing. Post war lots of Thompson stock (Bachman) by which time Mallard has lost her skirts. Hope this helps.

They might however have remarshalled the train, turning the observation car in the era they had one, and swapping it with the full brake(?) at the other end.

I'm not sure where Barry was posting from. Perhaps he was referring to the US practise of major termini like Grand Central having platforms on balloon loops?

Yorkshire ! ;>))