I've been asked to find out any information on the 'running order' of the
'teak' coaches that were run with the Mallard.
I believe there were 1st 2nd and 3rd Class with perhaps Dining Coaches?
Is it correct that coaches were turned around at the London end before
I have no knowledge at all of this subject, my friend is looking for
information, but he is completely Internet illiterate so I'm acting as
"Barry Higginbottom" wrote
I believe that 2nd class was phased out before the time that Mallard was
introduced, so any train would likely be a mix of 1st and 3rd class, with a
bias towards the latter, and don't forget the Restaurant car on many trains,
generally splitting the two classes of coaches.
Practically impossible to do that. If current practice applied, then the
first class would be situated at the *London* end of most trains.
I have being doing something similiar with the scotsman.
I have been told that the coaches were mirrored for that train so that the
loco was run around to the other end without the coaches being turned.
from Barry Higginbottom contains these words:
Second class had disappeared from the LNER by that time.
There was no need to turn the coaches - except for the observation coach
which, for obvious reasons had to be at the back of the train with the
windows facing backwards. It was turned on a loco turntable, but I have
no knowledge of how this was done - clearly the coach couldn't supply
the vacuum to power the turntable. I've seen photos of the coach on a
turntable but I have assumed that some other power source was being
(Pedant mode on)
From _most_ of the LNER but the new coach sets for the "Hook Continental" (Hook
of Holland via Harwich ferry service) which were built in 1938 included all
three classes to conform to continental practice.
All "normal" LNER services had long abandonned 2nd class.
(Pedant mode off)
No. All coach "sets" had a brake compartment positioned at or very near both
If coaches had had to be turned at the London end they would similarly have had
to be turned at the other end; as would trains which reversed but did not run
anywhere near London. An lot of work.
As this thread is about teak coaches there would have been no question of an
observation coach being involved. These were built for and run solely with the
"Coronation" train of 1937 and even bore the train name on their ends. This was
a steel panelled train painted Marlborough grey and Garter blue so the
observation cars would have been a complete livery missmatch for teak coaches.
Teak coaches (Varnished teak or steel panels painted to resemble teak) were the
bread-and-butter coaches of the LNER, used on their everyday trains. Any such
trrain to which "Mallard" was attached could equally well have been hauled by
almost any other of their express passenger locomotives.
Hope this helps,
Alex. W. Stirrat
It was quite simple to turn a coach on a turntable. You did exactly what you
did with a non-vaccuum fitted frieght locomotive of which the railways had very
many right up to the end of steam. You either powered it round if there was any
vacuum remaining in the reservoir tank on the turntable, cranked it round
manually if the rurntable was fitted with hand cranks geared to the drive or
just pushed it round be applying manual pressure to the end of the table
A good source is Michael Harris' book on LNER coaches. The teak coaches
were built from 1924 (compartment door stock) and 1931 (end vestibule
stock) for the main express trains. The LNER build special stock for
the high speed services so the teak coaches would remain on the general
Often the trains were 1st class at London end / Dining / 3rd class at
country end. The high speed trains had their compartments on the east
side (more picturesque) - but express trains were probably pretty
random. Brake composites would be detached at intermediate stations for
secondary locations (eg Scarborough) located at whichever end was more
operationally convenient. The LNER were not great users of composite
coaches - more likely to be single classes.
The "teak" trains would comprise more than just LNER coaches - also ex-
Joint Stock (from either York or Doncaster) and articulated stock.
Basically anything with Pullman gangways.
At the same time as Gresley produced Mallard, his steel sided (but teak
painted) coaches were appearing. Post war lots of Thompson stock
(Bachman) by which time Mallard has lost her skirts. Hope this helps.
They might however have remarshalled the train, turning the observation
car in the era they had one, and swapping it with the full brake(?) at the
I'm not sure where Barry was posting from. Perhaps he was referring to the
US practise of major termini like Grand Central having platforms on