Shed Layout

Hi,
I am a late starter to the hobby and am currently researching for my first
layout. I am leaning towards 'n' gauge although my preferred producer
(Fleischmann) seem not to make uk outline. Most probably I will have to go
Continental or opt for the Graham Farish line.
I have settled on DCC as that is the future and I might as well grin and
bear the cost now.
My query is whether my garden shed will be okay for me to use for my
layout?. The shed is dry but obviously gets cold in the winter. Dust seems
to be less than you get in a house so my only problem would appear to be the
cold temperature.
I would appreciate any advice on the suitability of a shed for my layout and
any advice on what precautions I should take. The shed is 10'x8' and I
would start with a small 6'x3' layout down one side.
Thanks,
Mickey
Reply to
Admin
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In message , Admin writes
If it were me, I would cut a couple of holes in the end wall of the shed, and extend the main line for a few (dozen) scale miles in the garden.
You will find that you are sharing the garden shed with a few (hundred) other life-forms. In spite of "the shed is dry" it is likely to become rather damp, especially in the winter, as a result of condensation of your breath, and as a result of any heating that you may use (that includes your own body as a heat source).
Apart from that, you should be OK.
Reply to
John Sullivan
Is the shed lined ? If not, consider lining with rock-fibre or similar insulation, then covering this with hardboard (shiny side towards the inside), taping the joints and giving it a couple of coats of emulsion. Also, think about some carpet offcuts or similar on the floor, and draughtproofing door and window. Finally, try to install a proper lock (Yale-type), rather than hasp and staple with padlock. Brian (whose own shed was snugger than his bedroom..)
Reply to
BH Williams
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:18:32 +0100, "BH Williams" wrote in message :
I recommend you join uk.rec.sheds, you are clearly a Sheddi :-)
Guy
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?
In my experience of N stuff, as a general rule of thumb; Japanese and US outline is cheapest and highest quality. UK is a bit dearer and lower quality (even the new "improved" stuff isn't that good when you look what the US and Japanese get). European is more expensive, better quality than UK, not as good as the best US and Japanese.
DCC in Farish is possible, but not the simplest. I'd still suggest it for someone starting out; may as well go with DCC from day one. Don't rule out some of the "less obvious" controller makers, such as Uhlenbrock (who make Fleishmann's DCC controllers) - I like their Daisy and Fred controllers.
Should be OK, so long as you've some expansion joints (or flexibility in the track to otherwise expand and contract). Watch out for spiders, mice and other shed life. Condensation may be an issue if its not got adequate ventilation.
I'd not build a 6*3 layout on the side; reaching across 3ft of layout is a right pain; at best you'll catch your jumper on something at the front, at worst you'll stain your back whilst reaching over. . I'd build a narrower layout down one side - say 1ft to 18in deep, if you want continuous run, return the tracks up the other side of the shed on a temporary plank shelf until you get round to doing it properly. I'd also use as much of the 10ft of run as I could.
- Nigel
Reply to
NC
Mickey,
I think you are going to have to insulate it, and maybe heat it, to try and provide a stable climate to control dampness. The problem wont be rain getting in through a leaky roof, but the formation of condensation when temperatures cycle from cold to warm through the dew point. If you can keep the ambient temperature above the dew point then you can avoid the problem.
If the shed is well insulated, then heating need not be expensive, and a small wattage electric convector heater with a thermostat can keep the shed at a reasonable temperature (50F+) when not in use without costing an arm and a leg, and can be turned up when in use to get the ambient temperature up to a comfortable level for humans.
A bit of ventilation does no harm either, especially when you are in the shed, to get rid of all the water vapour that we humans exude :-)
And don't be tempted to use open flame oil heaters - they chuck out an unbelievable amount of water into the atmosphere.
Jim.
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
Thanks everyone, I am pretty happy that the shed will not be a major issue, I'll follow the guidance on insulation but not sure if I can endure the laughter from my wife when I try to carpet the shed. For heating I can use a spare greenhous electrical heater, works well and has a nice defrost setting. The idea of narrowing from 3' to 18" sounds good as well.
Thanks, I can now move the dream along a little further. Still not sure how I'll fit the Cheshire Lines Committee into a Continental setup but I'm working on that one!
Kind Regards, Mickey
Reply to
Mickey
Mickey,
If your shed has a concrete floor, then anything that softens the surface will help. Standing around on cold concrete for hours is no laughing matter :-)
Jim.
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
I know it's more expensive but I went the plywood route rather than hardboard. Plywood has better dimensional stability and it's much easier to fit shelves etc. without being tied to the frame timbers. And all the offcuts can be used for more track, or better still, edging the outdoor boards John Sullivan suggests. (Nothing like running outdoors on a still evening, lights twinkling, drop of malt....).
Ken.
Reply to
Ken Parkes
Yup, do NOT use a parafin heater, every pint of fuel burnt produces a pint of water in the air. Best is a pot-belly stove burning coke (you get to use all that junk mail to get it started) but that requires firing up, an electric fan heater is probably the next best option.
You can get clever and run a thin ply trunking down from the roof area to the heater so it draws its air from the top (whewre the warm air gathers) and blows it out at foot level (whewre the cold air collects), this reduces the temperature gradient with makes you feel better and keeps your feet warm especially if you are sitting still in the room. You can get very uncomfortable if your head gets hot and your feet cold, doing this also reduces by quite a lot the amount of heat you will find you need in the room.
If you want to go over the top add an electrostatic 'ion generator' at the intake end and cut slots into the trunking into which you insert metal sheets (or varnished ply sheets) coated with grease. That is how they clean the air in 'clean rooms' and it will help deal with the dust you generate. These sheets need to be removed, cleaned and re-greased at intervals.
Do not smoke in the room if you can avoid it. I do not use them so I cannot comment on the effect of 'smoke units'
A shelf layout running round the walls is preferable for many reasons, I feel it is better than any solid board design. I had such a layout in a small shed in N that kept me entertained and I have helped built a couple for other people.
DStrip lighting is preferable, a strip down each side for preference to avoid casting a shadow with your body.
Its fine having a shed layout, and it makes a nice 'escape pod' when things get stressed
HTH&GL
Mike
Reply to
Mike
The main problem with an unheated, uninsulated garden shed is that the changes in temperature also bring with them changes in humidity, and those in turn can wreak havoc on baseboards, trackbeds, anything made of wood or woodfibre (such as MDF.) Same is true of unheated, uninsulated attics, garages, and basemenst (cellars.) Also changes in temperature can affect rail length in nasty ways, although that effect is usually not as great as the effects of humidity on the underlying track bed.
People have had success with a site such as yours, but I wouldn't risk it, not in these days of relatively cheap insulation materials which reduce the cost of heating. The shed should be kept at or above about 15 degrees Centigrade to reduce the risks of humidity changes.
Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir
[...]
Make sure you use vapour barrier (plastic sheeting) between the insulation and the wall board, else humidity will infiltrate, etc.
Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir
Don't you guys have "drywall"?
Besides, if you apply insulation, then you need a poly vapour barrier. Put the vapour barrier between the inside wall and the insulation.
Standard North American construction procedure where the vast majority of our houses are wood framed, with 2 x 4s, and have various decorative cladding on the outside that's made from either wooden "siding", plastic "siding", brick veneer, with full bricks or fake bricks, or stucco. Interior walls are clad in "drywall". foundations either concrete slab, crawl space, or basement. Nice, warm, comfortable, houses.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
They haven't yet caught on to 20th Century technology back home, Roger!
Reply to
MartinS
Obviously. :-)
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
In message , Roger T. writes
Don't your houses have a damp-proof course?
Garden sheds don't.
Reply to
John Sullivan
Probably not.
90% or more of houses in Britain are brick and brick or brick and block construction, the only wooden strutures we tend to use are sheds and old barns.
Reply to
estarriol
Further points :- Stand shed clear of ground on low supports if possible- mine wasn't, and so the floor rotted and fell apart (mind you, it toook about 25 years to do this, having originally been the site hut when my parents built the house). Concrete blocks or railway sleepers are a possibility, though these latter are currently stupidly expensive. I'd definitely avoid a coke fire, as CO might prove lethal if not used in a building with adequate ventilation. To be honest, a 60 W bulb was adequate most of the time in mine, with a fan heater on the few occassions when it got really cold. Brian
Reply to
BH Williams
In general, our houses are not built with bricks, so the answer is "No".
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
I have used plywood in a shed but also 'contiboard' (hard plastic coated high density chipboard, possibly similar to MDF sold as shelving), mounted on spur shelving at 15 inch centres.
On top of the contiboard I used fibre insertion used between concrete sections on buildings to allow for expansion (in the buildings). This is a lightweight felt material. Not much cheaper, if at all, than sundela. This gives very quiet running.
I made slots in the surface using a screwdriver for wires and wire in tube point control (messy job as the felt frays). Once all was ready for track laying I coated the felt with dilute PVA, not at all sure this was necessary. Track (peco) was glued down using diluted flexible (book binding) PVA, you can buy this from model shops from Anita Decor, you can also buy it direct if you want to buy a lot.
Its been in there for many years, the felt and track was replaced once when I changed the layout but the shelving in an unheated shed in Manchester (damp if not wet). The Max Min thermometer indicates that temperatures have ranged between about zero and up to 90 deg F over the years. I just ran a rubber over the track, connected the power and ran an 0-6-0 tank round with no problems at all.
No sign of warping or any other distortion. I used a lot of sectional (Minitrix) track and put a steel rule between the sections as I assembled the layout, gives a nice clickety clack and deals with possible expansion problems. There are no indications of problems on the Peco flex track sections (mostly the hidden tracks).
One odd point is that a strip of flet screwed to a strip of exterior ply with some track secured to it using wire instead of glue is still in good and useable condition after several years propped up in the yard.
The point being that this would serve for quiet running on sections of track outside (such as the suggested loops). Sitting the track on Peco foam would add a measure of realism if required. I would suggest using Slaters 20thou brass wire to secure the track - two holes punched through felt and supporting timber, wire looped over the sleepers, down through the holes and twisted underneath. I used steel florists wire, its still there after several years outside but I would expect it to rust away eventually
Re coke stoves, you need to buy a proper one. A friend lived on a canal boat for years, he now has such a stove in his living room and another (smaller) one in his garage cum workshop with a zig-zag chimney (apparently a lot of the heat comes from the stove pipe).
He tells me they are safer than parafin/butane heaters from a CO perspective.
HTH
Mike
Reply to
Mike

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