Why the lack of RTR EMUs?

wrote

I assume the manufacturers consider them to be too much of a risky investment. You've only to look around to see how few RTR DMUs there are, and these generally have much wider appeal because of their run anywhere availabilty.

Hornby are to produce a 'lower spec' Pendolino this year, which will be the first new RTR EMU in a long time.

John.

Presumably it didn't make much of a fortune for Dapol. The Pendolino is rather like Eurostar, much to long for 99% of layouts and the short version just looks wrong. Even after all these years Hornby have not managed to produce enough vehicles to allow Eurostar to be modelled properly. I expect Pendolino to be the same, unless it really sells very well the rest of the cars will not be seen. Keith

I think part of the problem is economics. Given that a 3 car unit is essentially 3 different bodies, the cost of tooling this is equivalent three loco's. This means the cost to the consumer could be 2-3 * the cost of 1 loco - assuming there really is the demand. Another aspect is that customers would want several different sets of running numbers, so this adds to the production costs.

Hornby have announced that the additional coaches will follow in 2007 (despite being in this year's list).

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Because there isn't a market for SR Trams masquerading as real trains. :-)

I've often wondered about this too. Especially with regards to the BR(S) Mark 1 stock. Given that the Mk1s use substantially standard components in real life, and that models of such could easily use a similar approach, it is somewhat disappointing that none of the RTR manufacturers has given them a try. I think a similar approach to Hornby's Mk1s would be needed. A common standard roof with separate vents to be positioned as required; common standard ends; common standard underframe detail parts; common standard bogies and wheelsets; common standard window inserts for flush glazing; common standard seating pieces. The only thing that really would have to be truly different for each coach would be the sides themselves.

Of course, there are kit manufacturers such as Southern Pride who produce kits with similar qualities to that I've described above, and Bratchell do the 321s, 322s, 456s, but as fully made and painted RTR units they are somewhat pricey at over £400 for a 4 car unit...

Maybe that reflects the problem though: Most EMUs in this country are region specific, and so by definition have a somewhat limited customer base. In Europe, USA, Japan, etc, I get the impression that the EMUs that run are more countrywide in their representation, so there is a bigger customer base for any given tooling... Of course they have EMUs in Australia too, but then they eat them there... ;)

Ian J.

"Ian Cornish" wrote

I don't quite follow your logic there Ian. I'd have thought that the cost of tooling would equate to three coaches not three locos, plus of course the addition of a drive mechanism. I'd expect a 3-car EMU to tip the scales around GBP90.00

I still don't think that demand would be enough to justify tooling.

John.

We are always told there is no demand. Steve

"titans" wrote

Oh there's a demand Steve, the question is how bis is that demand?

John.

trains. :-)

But there is for a Virgin 'Dragon'?....

If you saw some of the prices people are paying for the old Lima DMU models on Ebay... oh there's demand.

I know the tooling and marketing is a problem to overcome. I suggested

304/5/8 for this very reason, three classes from one set of stuff. 304s worked in Manchester and Birmingham. 308s worked around London, Leeds and Bradford. 305s have worked in Edinburgh amongst other places.

Those three classes have got about a bit and have been around the electrified network. They could all be produced in green, blue and blue/grey. Reggie rail for 304/5, NSE and WYPTE for 308. Apart from the later liveries all that would need changing would be the coach numbers surely?

If they fail to take off then go no further with the EMUs, if they do take of then pick another 'family' of EMUs that are close in design.

I'm sure the 303s would go down a storm in Scotland. Lima produced a one off batch of class 101s in Strathclyde Red livery in 1999, 300 examples were issued on commission for a model shop. They sold out very quickly and apparently they requested another batch to meet demand another batch was agreed apparently but nothing came of it. Issue price was about =A375, these days they cannot generally be sourced but when they do turn up on ebay they go for about =A3200. And a Strathclyde 101 would have a much more limited customer base (i.e Glasgow and Manchester and surrounding areas).

Mat.

From my POV, a Strathclyde 101 would be highly desirable - apart from their normal sphere of operation, they were known to drift into the north-east from time-to-time, and I'm sure even people beyond Glasgow/NW would agree that the old orange/black livery was one of the best of the BR sectorised era.

Replica Railways are supposed to be releasing a Southern Region MLV EMU and they may also make a proper EMU if it is successful. I believe that they have decided on these models because they already have some of the parts needed from the Mk1 Suburban and PCV coaches that they produce.

Fred X

":::Jerry::::" wrote in news:43b99f74$0$23036$ snipped-for-privacy@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:

I've travelled on one of those f***ers, never again!

I would also love to see Southern EMU,s Im sure there must be some demand. Agreed it is the only "type" of railway model not really catered for. Id actually like to see Bachman make them, for the simple reason I like their MK1's better, any thoughts? Rob

Trix Twin did a Nelson way back when. These days it would be considered tinplate, rare, a clooecor's item and very expensive.

But I'd like to see a decent Nelson.

Having spent the last few weeks trying to unravel this topic I would suggest there are two problems with EMUs

1. Very restricted routes (and as noted elsewhere they did not wander about much)
2. The provision of the juice, third rail is not too difficult (I know a chap who has that on an OO layout), four rail (North London and tube stock) is more problematic. Overhead is a labour of love (the 1500v DC is easier, a lot less insulators than the AC stuff)

In N there are plenty of kits to convert Mk 1 coaches into SR EMUs, I think Worsley Works offer kits for EMUs (not RTR as far as I am aware).

If enough people buy these and put them on display at shows this might provoke more interest - Make a few and write up the exercise for the mags, again giving them a higher profile.

I am awaiting a hand written summary of EMU ops from an old timer, this will get added to the page I am working on . . .

Regards

Mike

Great web site, thanks. Maybe someone should come up with a conversion kit for OO? Rob

would

wander

Well, not quite, if (with modern tooling design) someone dipped their toe with a MK1 based EMU not only could they use a lot of the tooling used for the MK1 coaching stock but they could also produce a TC set (take note Hornby and Heljan, you both produce suitable motive power) and these could and did travel well beyond the juice rail.