MTH wins lawsuit against Lionel

Here's a news article from the Detroit Free Press, the home city of Lionel:

Detroit federal jury orders Lionel train-maker to pay rival $40 million

And they're fixin' to loose another to the UP. Wonder what other nasty things will come out of the woodwork to kick 'em when they're down. Bruce

MTH will gain ownership of the Lionel name thru the settlement and most likely market his trains under the Lionel name which has more recognition than MTH That will be the end of Lionel as we know it.

Youse guys ever hear of appeals? From what I have heard about this and knowing many of the folks at MTH (we live in the same town), I totally concur with the judgment. I'm not sure Lionel knew fully what transpired with the stolen documents and plans and I would guess the lion's share of the blame should fall on the builder. As an artist, industrial designer, writer, and hack musician, I have know what it is like to be plagiarized and I again I totally support MTH. What effect this will have on the hobby..............to early to tell. As far as publicity...that is another story. I'm more worried about the nonsense suit brought against them by UP. That is not exactly plagiarism, but gross stupidity!! Lionel in name alone is a powerful force and most definitely an icon in this field. Even today when I meet someone named Lionel, my thoughts immediately turn towards trains. I would not be in too much of a hurry to write their obituary. Hopefully some of these lawyers will go home and play with their train sets. HZ

From today's paper:

"DETROIT -- A U.S. District Court jury decided M>I totally

Note the phrase "and others" in the article - how much of the judgement is Lionel responsible for? How much knowledge did they have of what was going on?

This is a case that is by no means over...

Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.

Lionel's problem is that they are here (in the U.S.) and those "others" are in a foreign country. Assuming the verdict is sustained on appeal (a HUGE assumption) MTH can collect the entire judgment from Lionel and Lionel can only try to recoup some of the money it paid MTH from the Koreans IN KOREA. That won't be an easy task. This case is, literally, years away from its ultimate conclusion.

By the bye, having recently heard him play, I can attest that Howard Zane is far too modest about his musical skills. He is an accomplished banjo picker and his lovely wife plays a mean fiddle as well.

RWBooneSr

You say that as if it were a bad thing. Lionel was the last of the "toy train" manufacturers.

Considering that pretty well all of MTH's claimed intellectual property was and is public domain knowldge (eg, found in eletronics textbooks, articles in the mrr press, etc), the suit simply illustrates two features of the intellectual climate of the US of A:

a) general ignorance of science of technology - appallingly high for a country that relies so much on both; and b) a woefully underfunded and undertrained patent office.

I don't know which is more dangerous in the long run.

As for the $40.7M award - that an idiotic figure, but normal for US tort juries, from which so many candidates are excluded that those that do get on can barely count their thumbs.

I am interested in seeing how much of the judement Lionel is responsible for, too. So far I've seen a report of at least $12.8 million. From what I understand part of MTH's charge was that Lionel had to know that the plans were stolen based on all of the circumstances.

... and in related news, Mike's Train House has announced that they will be changing the name of their company to Mike's Train Mansion.

According to news reports today, the court found Korea Brass and their U.S. representative responsible for over $2 million of the judgment.

I think you may be confusing the Lionel-MTH case with the much more recent one that MTH has brought against Broadway Limited Imports.

The later BLI case is mostly just an unauthorized use of "intellectual property" issue. It is yet to be decided.

The earlier case involved actual theft of property in the form of plans, which were then used to build and market a competing product. Much more than 'intellectual property was involved. The 'dirty work' was apparently conducted by the Korean builder ... how much Lionel may have known is unclear.

Dan Mitchell ==========

Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Let me get this straight...MTH sued Lionel because they stole intellectual property from them? If you look through an MTH catalog, you'll find that just about every single structure they've made in O scale has been an EXACT copy of an existing HO scale kit made by another manufacturer. That's okay?

both companies suck since they make junk. who cares about them.

Yup, as long as they draw up their own designs based upon the other outfit's finished product, rather than stealing the other company's drawings - which is what Lionel's contactor is said to have done to MTH's contractor.

Put another way - I'm free to copy your engineering idea (as long as it's not patented), but I can't just steal your blueprints and copy them.

B-Dubya

..agreed.. I wuzznt thinkin'...

Do you find it a good thing? Have something against toy trains? I had them when I was a kid and many children still do have Lionels. It is a good starting point to get children interested in trains. They are big and rugged so a child can play with them. If you don't like toy trains you have a real problem, since all electric trains, regardless of scale, are in reality toys. And in case you didn't know it, now that MTH has won this suit against Lionel, they will turn there attention towards all scales as they are suing the makers of DCC, all of them, because of some sort of infringement on their DCS control system which they had first. That is going to effect all of the hobby unless you are like me and run DC, then is doesn't matter.

Say jepperson, do you have any experience with civil suits?

No, I thought you were down on Lionel. The fact they are the last toy train manufacturer and they may be in trouble is a bad thing.

Also, I don't care about DCC, at home I run DC, our club just voted and only ONE member wanted DCC on the club layout, all the rest voted against it. It is far to expensive for the small benefit youu get.

Just curious, what about insurance against this sort of thing?

Jim