I'm considering purchasing either an MTH Z-4000 or a Lionel ZW transformer. Can anyone give me their thoughts and or experiences with both? I'll be using this on a non-command/control layout, but that factor may change in the future. Below are some questions that I have:
1) The MTH catalog says that the Z4000 is capable of 400 watts. Does that mean that they can put 400 watts on 1 variable AC circuit, or does that mean that the z4000 make 4 circuits total of 400 watts (as in 2 variable 100 watt AC circuits and 2 fixed 100 watt AC circuits)?
2) Is there any problem with using an MTH z4000 to make a Lionel train's horn, bell, and direction function?
3) What do people like and dislike about both of these transformers?
4) I noticed that you have to use separate 180 watt transformers for the Lionel zw. Does the MTH z4000 use a similar setup, or does the MTH z4000 contain everything in one chassis?
5) If the Lionel ZW is set up with four 180 watt transformers, can all of the power be delivered to 1 variable AC circuit, or can you max on
180 watt per circuit?
6) What was the most amount of track that you used successfully with either or both products?
7) Has anyone ever written a formal unbiased head-to-head product review of both products?
8) I see an on/off switch on the z4000 in the catalog. Does the Lionel have an on/off switch?
Only 2 variable & one fixed outputs on the Z-4000. The 400 watts is available to any one, but is divided among the 3 if all are used.
None at all.
I Like the 4 Channels of the ZW. The ZW has add-on volt & amp meters (about $100.00 additional) that will give you the numbers for all channels, but is a real hassle to deal with on common ground layouts. Also, with a command base(about $50.00 on the street) and Cab 1(also about $50.00 on the street)the ZW instantly becomes a 4 channel remote controller, no PM-1s to buy (about a $280.00 savings right there) and you can run all your conventional locos by remote whenever you want, & switch back in an instant. Go to
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and download the PDF manual for the ZW to appreciate its capability.
The ZW has a 180 watts per channel design limit, the Z-4000 has 400 watts(if no other loads are on it). It comes with either (2) 180s or (2) 135s. Any combination of 4 180s or 135s can be used on the ZW.
The ZW has a 720 watts total capability, Z-4000 only 400.
The Z-4000 greatly simplifies programming PS-1, QS-1, QS-2, etc. engines, and has the built-in volt & amp meters.
Everything, but only 400 watts. See above.
Design... 180 per circuit. It is possible to combine channels by going outside the intended parameters... for example, the PM-1 + PH-1(135 watts) will not deliver quite enough to haul a twin motor F-3 with a full complement of illuminated aluminum passenger cars, so we "stack" 2 PM-1s w/ 2 PH-1s, programming the PM-1s to the same "track"... #2 eg. for a 270 watt power reserve.
Doesn't matter. It could be hundreds of miles. Your power distribution system should include feeder wires or a buss system, not just the track connection(s).
The mags (CTT & OGR) have obviously done both... how unbiased is hard to say...
Each "brick" PowerMaster has a power switch on it. The ZW requires that a PM be connected to channel 1 (far right) for overall operation overhead. Go to the website above, print out the manual, and pore over it.
There are actually two fixed outpts, a 10VAC and a 14VAC, along with the two variable outputs.
Lionel
transformers?
meters
all
layouts.
This can be a major problem for some layouts. The Z4000 has the volt & amp meters already built in (no extra expense) and I've never had a problem using a Z4000 on a common ground layout.
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Note that when used conventionally, without a Command Base & CAB-1, only the two outer levers have whistle and direction controls associated with them. As originally designed, the two short inner levers were intended to be variable outputs for accessories, which don't require whistle or direction controllers.
On a per output basis this means the ZW is limited to 180W max (the limit of the 'brick') per output, the Z4000 to 200W max to the tracks if the accessory outputs are not used.
etc.
This is a 'Godsend' if you own any MTH PS-1 locos. You'll go nuts trying to program them without a Z4000.
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does the MTH
"Only 400 watts" is relative. As I noted above, even with four bricks attached (720W total) the ZW limit is 180W per output. With the Z4000 you get 200W per track output if the accy outputs are not used. In most cases, even if the accy outputs are used you still have somewhere around 190W available to each track output.
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#2 eg.
This may work, but it voids all warranties if you do it. The PM-1's are designed to be connected to one 135W (or 180W if it's the new model) brick, and then to the track. If you want to double up power bricks use a TPC300 or TPC400 that's designed for it, along with a command base and CAB-1. You can switch between command & conventional modes with both TPC's using the CAB-1. The TPC300 can handle two 135W bricks, giving you 270W (more than enough for a two motor F3) to a single track, and the TPC400 can handle two 180W bricks, for a total of 360W to the track. By adding a 'control cable' between them you can control multiple TPC's with one CAB-1.
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the Lionel
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pore over it.
Plugging everything into a power strip with an On/Off switch, circuit breaker, and surge suppressor is the simplest way to handle a ZW and it's associated 'cord clutter'. In fact, the amount of 'cord clutter' associated with the new ZW, and the amount of space it and the bricks take up, are my biggest complaints about it. The Z4000, with it's small footprint and single line cord seems elegant in comparison.
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