cellulosic SMA inc. wet - understand meas. voltage?

Hi everyone

Can someone explain these results from measuring arc voltage while "stick" welding?

All 2.5mm (3/32nd-inch) diameter:

+-------------------------------------------------------+ |7018 |Bohler EV50 |22V |72A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6013 "R" |straight rutile |25V |62A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6013 "RC"|Zodian Universal rutile-cellulose|21V |76A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6010 |Foxcel |30V |62A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6010 |Foxcel - wet |28V |64A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6011 |Arcos Nu5 |20V-25V|62A| |---------+---------------------------------+-------+---| |6011 |Arcos Nu5 - wet |30V-35V|63A| +-------------------------------------------------------+

Welding machine was Murex Transtig AC/DC 250HF on polarity DCEP set to 20% on the 20A-320A range. (this is essentially a copper-and-iron transformer machine whose thyristors, etc, feature when AC TIG welding (?))

As you can see, the cellulosics are at the bottom of the table and the really interesting results are the last two.

So what is going on here?

In UK technical colleges, I have long known that dipping their "standard" cellulosic rod, 6011 "Arcos Nu5", in water transforms the performance, giving a deeply penetrative roaring "cellulosic" arc where sometimes "from the tin" (open on its side for months) the arc often goes soft and is prone to arc-blow. Soaking would mean say 1 minute with all the flux immersed in water (too long and the flux bloats and cracks - at several times longer than this "ideal" time). I've referred to this before on s.e.j.w., but never taken measurements - until now...

I observe that for all 6010's I have encountered, dipping the rod in water seems to have no detectable effect on welding performance.

The "Arcos Nu5" 6011 jumps +10V in arc voltage with the water treatment. That's a lot! And the effect when welding is unmissable. The rod will confidently lance a keyhole through a greater root face than the 1.6mm gap, 1.6mm root-face standard. And you can lean on it hard to force keyholing if weld prep. goes against you, etc (std. cellulosic root-run practice). No other electrode does this change. +10V is a lot of punch - a huge extra amount of focused arc power.

By the way - you can "drill" a plate of steel with the 6011 "Nu5" electrode wet, using any stick welding machine. It will happily "drill" a 12mm (half-inch) thick plate. [That is, put a plate of steel upright, strike the arc and press the rod in one place unmoving and the rod will steadily tunnel through the plate until it bursts through the other side and you can slide it further to break the arc, leaving your 2.5mm electrode seeming shot through the plate like an arrow through a target]

I think the arc voltage is proportional to "ferocity", in my opinion and that of the welding instructor who did these tests with me. So if you look at the voltage for the Bohler "Foxcel" 6010, you would come to the same conclusion we did. Tenuously, because neither of us are experienced with these rods - nodding respectfully to those of you who use these rods all day every day.

On the face of it, the "Arcos Nu5" 6011 becomes a super-performer when used wet. And it is the only electrode which does it. WHY is this? What is special?

Commercially, the effect would mean a thicker weld root, more able to take stress and leaving less volume of fill run to do (?). Advantageous if usable.

I'm figuratively putting on my soldier's helmet and ducking for cover here! Please be gentle with me, you folk who use pallet-loads of pipelining electrodes :~(

Richard Smith

Reply to
Richard Smith
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Hi - thanks for taking an interest.

Doesn't electrode type also control the arc voltage? As there's a correct constant arc length, the rod is the only thing which controls arc voltage in proper welding practice, isn't it?

I understood that the high hydrogen in the arc of cellulosic xx10's/xx11's raises the arc voltage, and also causes the pinched-in cylindrical penetrative arc. Hence they are "hot rods". These measurements agree - the 6010 "Foxcel" and the 6011 "Nu5" have higher arc voltages.

And higher arc voltage is damn' good for root running, as current has a maximum limit (mustn't overheat the rod), so voltage drop between rod and workpiece is the only way to pack the extra punch. (electrical power = current x volts -- how much electricity flows by what pressure is "forcing" it).

So my big question is - for just one electrode, soaking it in water does something you really want; it sends the arc voltage way up. Why?

Why does this one electrode respond in this way? What is it about the electrode? Is it "something stupid", like it was too dry to start with? Or is it something exciting or interesting, like there is something special about the flux formulation which makes it "supercharge" when wet?

Sorry I tend to write too much :-( Thanks again for taking an interest.

Richard Smith

"MES" writes:

Reply to
Richard Smith

Is it possible that the Nu5 rod absorbs more water when soaked than the other rods? A way to test the idea of the Nu5 absorbing more water would be to weigh each rod before and after soaking to see if there is a noticable differance in weight gain.

I am suspecting that the water absorbed in the coating is breaking down in the plasma to hydrogen and oxygen and pushing the ionization voltage up. My welding experience in recent years is all with GTAW. In GTAW, adding helium to the argon or using straight helium results in more penetration by raising the arc voltage. I think helium has a higher ionization voltage than argon.

This is completely speculation on my part as I am not a physicist and at this point in my life I am mostly a shade tree welder.

Bob

Reply to
BobH

Oh yes. Good scientific thinking. Will try that one Bob. Sorry can't be right away and report back, as none of these rods here. Rich. S.

Reply to
Richard Smith

Bob

My first theory is water preserves cellulose "green and fresh" to go into the arc with maximal effect. I doubt free water could make it into the arc (?), but the water evaporating keeps the rod cool.

Your idea of extra mass gain of water should correlate to extra "punch" and arc volts if my idea were true (or you could raise the maximum current more above the "80A for a 2.5mm (3/32") rod" without charring the cellulose).

Rich. S.

Reply to
Richard Smith

Might be the extra conduction up to near the tip. Water conducts. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

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Richard Smith wrote:

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Martin H. Eastburn

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