Lincoln SA-200 Starter: repair or replace?

I have some progress with my SA-200.

Got the refurbished starter from Napa for $45. (plus core charge, they said they do not give a fsck about what exactly I return for core).

Fitted this with a replacement solenoid that I had.

The welder now cranks REALLY GREAT, very powerfully.

If I add a bit of fuel to the carb (I disconnected the hose from the tank), the welder starts, emits a lot of black smoke, and dies within

2 seconds.

Would you say I need to de-gunk the carb? That's got to help?

I got a gallon of carb cleaner liquid from Napa for this.

i

"back in the day" undercutting comms was de rigeur on generators, but totally verbotten on starters. Starter brushed have copper in them, not just carbon, and the copper/carbon dust would pack the slots, shorting the armature in short order. The hard copper/carbon brushes easilly kept the mica in check.

On generators, the soft carbon brushes would bounce off the mica, burning the commutator if not properly undercut. Tool if chaice was a hacksaw plade with the set filed off.

I agree. Lots of "clean and paint" rebuilds available. A PROPER rebuild has a new or totally reconditioned armature and new field coils, new brushes and brush springs, and a new drive - as well as a new or fully rebuilt solenoid.

Quite a few "rebuilt" starters on the market today are actually BRAND NEW replacements made in a Chinese sweat-shop. They generally do not require a core, and no care deposit is applicable.

Once a machine dies and sits around for a while, parts slowly disappear.

John

Good deal on the starter cost. Just give them the old one, they won't pull it apart to check.

Time for a carb rebuild. Back to NAPA for a $15 carb kit. Usual tear down, soak > I have some progress with my SA-200.

It's risky, but sometimes you can make a stubborn engine run on sprayed ether starting fluid or propane from an unlit torch. Try to stay out of line in case it backfires.

When an old engine I just bought won't run I give it a good checkout and a full tuneup whether it needs it or not. I think they like the attention.

Do you know the smell of a rich, lean or normal exhaust?

jsw

OK, cool. Thanks. Is that carburetor also a common item?

i

Ignoramus23509 wrote in sci.engr.joining.welding on Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:41:44 -0500:

Looks like a NAPA starter is in your future. And while your there, get a NAPA Gold oil filter. Fram filters are sub par.

The carb is generic as bread. The NAPA guy should be able to pull a kit from stock. On-line probably won't work, this is in the old paper catalogs. If there is a little metal tag with odd numbers under one of the screws, take that with you. If no tag, you might get your choice of a couple of items. Even that is not an issue, you will most likely need the main gaskets and the float valve and seat.

If you can't get a rebuild kit, just take extra care on disassembly, check that the float valve needle does not have any groves, clean, reassemble. If this rig sat for several years, there will be a scum of dried gas inside the carb that plugs ports and makes the needle stick. Squeaky clean is your friend.

Common enough for a $300. part:

(Bottom of page)

:)

--Winston

If the carb has a drain plug, try draining the bowl. Or you will have to take the bowl off to clean it. Can be water or dirt in the bottom, which can plug the high speed jet. Otherwise, it usually means the little holes in the high speed jet are clogged and need to be unclogged. The holes are very small, pin size. The high speed jet is near the bottom of the bowl, so gets clogged up easily. Water will prevent gas from getting to the jet.

I have some progress with my SA-200.

Got the refurbished starter from Napa for $45. (plus core charge, they said they do not give a fsck about what exactly I return for core).

Fitted this with a replacement solenoid that I had.

The welder now cranks REALLY GREAT, very powerfully.

If I add a bit of fuel to the carb (I disconnected the hose from the tank), the welder starts, emits a lot of black smoke, and dies within

2 seconds.

Would you say I need to de-gunk the carb? That's got to help?

I got a gallon of carb cleaner liquid from Napa for this.

i

Napa has a carburetor kit, that I _think_ matches my carburetor.

Based on this page:

They have a Zenith carburetor K13720 shown, and a repair kit K2033. If I search for it online, I find that it matches a list of carbs, like here:

I picked a carb number from the list at this page, and Napa had a kit for it, so I will get it today, hopefully, and may be able to repair the carb this weekend.

i

When I did mine, I learned a bit.

A lot of the SA 200's use an updraft carburetor, something a little different in the carburetor world, but just fine for these machines. Zenith brand IIRC. They are pretty spendy if bought outright, and a rebuild makes a lot more sense unless yours is totally fried or cracked.

Mine did the same things, sputtering and dying. So, I took the carb apart. Be warned that these things have sat with varnished gas for years in a lot of cases. So, one must work with wide slotted straight bit screwdrivers to get a tight fit in the slots so as not to booger up the heads. Then splitting the cases requires care, as the gasket is just about fossilized in there. I took mine all apart, down to jets, and jet seats, float, etc, and just cleaned it all out, and ran pipe cleaners through the channels. Used my Foredom and a tiny rotary wire wheel to clean off surfaces. I made a gasket out of gasket material, never thinking that they would probably have a kit at NAPA. I may still take it apart again, this time boiling all the gunge off it, and doing it right.

I must have done it right, as it works like a charm, even if it is a very simple carburetor. Always check the filters and flush the lines. I built a tumbler for my gas tank out of a barbecue rotor motor, and put marbles and BBs in it with some sandblasting sand, and it cleaned it nicely.

Usually the problem is particles right at the intake jet that are jammed into there, or somewhere in there, and a good cleaning gets it all out. Just how thorough a cleaning, and how clean and new you want it to look depends on you. But this winter, when I'm looking for an inside stay warm project, I'll probably do mine right and shine it all up.

HTH

Steve

Heart surgery pending?

Don't forget that the gas in the tank is basically poison to the engine. If it is old AT ALL it may not burn properly anymore. The "light ends" or volatile compounds evaporate off first, and leave useless gas behind.

Yep. I added new gas to the tank and disconnected the fuel line. The new gas will hopefully dissolve the old gas in a week and I will dump it all from there.

The fuel lines are all rotten and need replacement.

i

Congrats!

Now that you've got it cranking, have you got a compression gauge? You might want to check compression before putting a whole lot more money into it. I probably would have taken the plugs out and given each cylinder a shot of penetrating oil to loosen any stuck rings before trying to crank it, then cranked it over with the plugs out to maybe blow out crud, dead bugs and such. New plugs and wires might be in order if they aren't in great shape, too. Distributor cap, points and rotor should be checked. If you don't have a compression checker, you might be able to borrow one from the likes of Autozone or O'Reilly for free. They charge you going out the door with it and credit you back when it comes in. It'd tell you if you're wasting time and money, anyway, if you've got a busted ring or cracked valve. If all the cylinders have the same compression(as long as it isn't zero), full speed ahead!

Stan

I am not a big fan of using either/starting fluid for gasoline engines, as it is a powerful drying agent and will remove the oil film on the cylinder walls and cause hard and reduced cranking speed and increased starter current draw. I have often used plain gasoline in an old (metal parts) pump type oil can. Pure gasoline can be easily squirted into the carb of a cranking or running engine as required to test for failed fuel delivery. This technique does have risks and is best done outside, in an area free of othe inflamables and of course only when wearing proper PPE (gloves, safety glasses etc)

I strongly agree. Old, fouled or rusted plugs and burned or worn points or distributor cam follower or rotor and especially a cracked distributor cap can cause lots of problems and a basic tune up is easy and cheap and the installation of any new parts as required takes very little more time than just inspecting. A check for proper firing order is indicated on any non running engine that may have had repairs attempted by less than qualified persons snip

Good luck, YMMV

The best/safest way to feed gasoline to an engine for starting/testing is an old gasoline blowtorch. The gas is under pressure so can NEVER suck fire back into the can - and the fuel knob allows you to shut the gas off quickly and safely. They also send a well directed streem for some distance, allowing you to stand back.

I tried a cheap plastic oil can, it squirted enough liquid to run down the outside and drip on the asphalt. I save the irreplaceable USA oil cans for way and spindle oil.

The starting fluid isn't just diethyl ether, this one contains propane, butane and heptane, a component of gasoline.

jsw