Lincoln SA-200 Starter: repair or replace?

Another thing screwed up by the regulators. WD40 was good for burning out wasps nests and when ever else where you needed a good flame thrower..

John

Used to do it for just that, but quit because of the soot marks. Just make sure you get them, because if you don't, all you do is piss them off. Knocking down the nest that was started kept them away. Once that's any good size, you're up against a bigger army.

Steve

Not likely to work too well as a starting fluid then - - -

NO works as a fuel carrier, and is not combustible. Or is it?

Steve

Heart surgery pending?

That's a clever idea.

i

Steve B wrote in sci.engr.joining.welding on Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:54:10 -0700:

Reminds me of when a friend asked me how you shut off engine of a lawn mower, after I had gotten it started. I said "Just pull off the spark plug wire"..... and he did.

Ignoramus10687 wrote in sci.engr.joining.welding on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:49:06 -0500:

Let it sit and soften the gunk for a while, then run some more through. It's running rich, so could be a stuck float, or crap in the float needle seat. Or someone might have been messing around with the mixture screws.

Steve, A little off topic here Re: your tumbler. I've been noodling with the same idea (BBQ rotiserie motor) or one based on a vibrating motor shaft and the whole unit mounted on springs like the big comercial doughnut vibratory finishing machines. So I'm curious about your unit's effectiveness. Have you used your tumbler to sand rusty or painted parts? Anything you might do differently if you were to (re)build another?

thanks,

-mark

-- tumbler for my gas tank out of a barbecue rotor motor, and put marbles and BBs in it with some sandblasting sand, and it cleaned it nicely.--

Tin Lizzie DL wrote in sci.engr.joining.welding on Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:34:41 -0700:

Yup. But honestly, I didn't think he would do it. I was just being a smart ass. And when he leaned over to reach for the plug boot, I thought he was just kidding too. But then he pulled it, and well... you know, ZZZZZAAPPPP!!! It was at a high idle too.

"mkzero" wrote

So I'm curious about your unit's effectiveness. Have you used your tumbler to sand rusty or painted parts? Anything you might do differently if you were to (re)build another?

I made a bare bones one similar to the skewers that hold up a roast during cooking on the regular grill. The first thing I learned was to keep the cleaning medium light, as it choked up the motor with all the weight. It resembled a camping setup with the Y forks, and a straight rod through the carcass, but I used four support points. But instead of a straight rod, I built a cage around the tank. I found all the ball bearings I could find, which was about a pint of them, and added some sandblasting sand. I let it run for 24 hours.

Were I to do it again, I would make one out of a 55 gal barrel for some items, but that wouldn't have done the INSIDE of this tank. As with a lot of metalworkers, we make specialty tools that only see use once or twice, but it is something that you absolutely cannot buy, or if you can, they want an arm and a leg.

Were I to do it again to make a gas tank tumbler, I would use a more substantial motor, either of a very low rpm, or put a pulley reducer system on there. I would make it beefier, able to hold heavier items or more tumbling medium. I would also make the holding box adjustable for all different kinds of gas tanks. If you deal with tanks at all, it might be something to look into.

As it was, it worked out fine, as you can only make so much ice cream out of so much horse manure, and there's only so much you can do with old iron. It took longer to get the tank to rinse clean, and dry out than tumble it. And paint and dry.

HTH

Steve

Heart surgery pending?

"....I made a bare bones one similar to the skewers that hold up a roast during cooking on the regular grill. =A0The first thing I learned was to keep the cleaning medium light, as it choked up the motor with all the weight. =A0It resembled a camping setup with the Y forks, and a straight rod through the carcass, but I used four support points. =A0But instead of a straight rod, I built a cage around the tank.....=A0Were I to do it again, I would make one out of a 55 gal barrel for some items, but that wouldn't have done the INSIDE of this tank...."

------ Ah! I missed that little detail: You were doing the inside. That clears it up. My plan was to make one similar to a Ball Mill or a cement mixer using the bottom 4/5ths of a 20lb propane tank, open at the top and tilted over to maybe 45 deg. Support the "drum" on a frame/cradle of inverted rubber casters and have a stub of the BBQ skewer welded onto the bottom (axially, of course). Bracket for the rotisserie motor, maybe hinged and sprung slightly. Bob's your uncle.

"...It took longer to get the tank to rinse clean, and dry out than tumble it. And paint and dry...."

------ Pardon my ignorance, but why would you tumble the inside of a gas tank? By what you wrote it seems that this might be something done often (by some). If corrosion has reached the inside of the tank, isn't it too late?

Mark

"....I made a bare bones one similar to the skewers that hold up a roast during cooking on the regular grill. =A0The first thing I learned was to keep the cleaning medium light, as it choked up the motor with all the weight. =A0It resembled a camping setup with the Y forks, and a straight rod through the carcass, but I used four support points. =A0But instead of a straight rod, I built a cage around the tank.....=A0Were I to do it again, I would make one out of a 55 gal barrel for some items, but that wouldn't have done the INSIDE of this tank...."

------ Ah! I missed that little detail: You were doing the inside. That clears it up. My plan was to make one similar to a Ball Mill or a cement mixer using the bottom 4/5ths of a 20lb propane tank, open at the top and tilted over to maybe 45 deg. Support the "drum" on a frame/cradle of inverted rubber casters and have a stub of the BBQ skewer welded onto the bottom (axially, of course). Bracket for the rotisserie motor, maybe hinged and sprung slightly. Bob's your uncle.

"...It took longer to get the tank to rinse clean, and dry out than tumble it. And paint and dry...."

------ Pardon my ignorance, but why would you tumble the inside of a gas tank? By what you wrote it seems that this might be something done often (by some). If corrosion has reached the inside of the tank, isn't it too late?

Mark

"mkzero" wrote

Pardon my ignorance, but why would you tumble the inside of a gas tank? By what you wrote it seems that this might be something done often (by some). If corrosion has reached the inside of the tank, isn't it too late?

Mark

The inside of the tank had rust and scale, and I needed something to do. Luckily it was not corroded too badly. It hasn't leaked, and there's quite a space left there if it does to put an aftermarket tank.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?

As I said earlier, I changed my mind and decided to rebuild this Lincoln SA-200's ignition and carb. I took some pictures

as they will tell me how to reassemble the carb, and for asking questions below. It is my first gas engine rebuild ever, so I apologize if my questions are stupid.

1. Compression. Measured 130, 135, 135, 137 on four cylinders. How does it look?

1. Spark plugs. See above link for pictures of spark plugs. Do they tell anything interesting? Two look my blacker than the other two.

2. Carb: I called some local carb shop and asked them about the carb leaking fuel to the intake air filter. The guy told me that 9 times out of 10 they look at them in this condition, they have to replace them and something is not "seated", and it is not fixable. WTF? Is that true?

1. I took the carb somewhat apart and put it in a gallon of carb cleaner liquid that is made for soaking carburetors, with a little basket. How long should I keep that stuff in it?

2. What exactly can make the carb needle not do its job, and let excess of fuel into the intake?

Thanks guys, sorry for so many questions.

i

I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but the relative consistency between them is a good sign.

The center two plugs look good, the outer two appear to be a bit fouled with fuel and/or oil. You need more light in those pictures. You should be able to find an auto site online that has sample pictures of spark plugs with notations on what the different conditions mean.

Doubtful. Leaking fuel usually indicates that the float is not shutting off the fuel when the carb bowl is full. This can be a bad seat, bad valve pintle, a hole in the float, or simply improper adjustment. A carb rebuild kit normally contains a new valve pintle and seat. The float should be solderable if there is a pinhole, which I doubt there is. Normally the adjustment for the float involves using a drill bit of a specified diameter as a gauge to set the float height.

From what some folks say, not too long since that cleaner is quite strong. I use a Simple Green solution in a heated ultrasonic cleaner, after inital cleaning with regular spray carb cleaner, and that usually works well for me.

The carb needle likely has nothing to do with it. The float is not shutting off the fuel fully when the carb bowl is full and that is causing the carb bowl to overflow. This is not an uncommon problem, and often the rebuild kits for carbs contain better parts such as valve pintles with a soft tip that seal better than older metal to metal valves. The carb I recently worked on from a 1954 Ford tractor was like that, the old carbs were known for flooding, and the rebuild kit had an improved valve pintle and seat.

Agree with Pete down the line:

1) Compression is great. Even across is perfect (MUCH closer than I would have expected). Higher than I would have expected. 2) 2 plugs are just fine, other two are running way rich. It is normal to photograph the plugs in the order on the engine along with a tag saying "1,2,3,4" etc. I write the cylinder number on each plug just in case I drop it. Or "L1, L2, L3, R1, etc for a V-6. The two plugs are bad are usually next to each or have something in common (plug wires, distributor cap position, bad head gasket, etc) 3)Leaking fuel is usually a bad needle and seat. Carb rebuild kit should have the new parts. The rest of the items Pete mentioned are the other 10% of the problems. 4)Haven't used that cleaner but several hours plus a rub down with a stiff bristle brush (old toothbrush is great). 5) Carb float valves get a r>

Corrosion on the inside of the tank is not at all uncommon and tubmling with gravel or a couple handfulls of metal "punch outs" from an ironworker gets rid of the heavy stuff very nicely.

A final etch and a "slosh" of a fuel and alcohol proof sealer makes the tank good again and stops the filters from being constantly plugged.

For a Conti flathead that looks pretty good. Might have sticky rings on the 130, and/or a bit of carbon in the 137, but nothing to worry about at this point. If it was mine I'd be running something like Marvel Mystery Oil or Shaler Rislone in the oil for a while, then at the next change I'd put half a dose of Lucas oil stabilizer in the new oil.

That's just me, from my long experience, going back to when those machines (engines) were very common.

The midle two look perfect, the 2 outer ones have been misfiring and quite possibly running rich.

No. 9 times out of ten the needle valve will be dirty. In picture #10, the needle valve is under the brass float assembly. Caerefully pull the pin, watching carefully how the spring fits, and then temove the needle valve. The original is a har steel pin (looks like chrome) in a rass seat. Very unforgiving of dirt. Many replacement needles were Viton or rubber tipped. Much better seal, but the viton/rubber degrades over time. It will be part of the overhaul kit, so you will replace it. On some the seat unthreads and a new seat will also be included. Big thing is, you need it CLEAN.

A couple hours

Worn needle, damaged seat, or MOST LIKELY, dirt.