Second dumb question of the month coupon

I know I already used one coupon this month, so sue me.
I bought an old SA 200 welder with a 1.75 kw rated plug for tools. This is
stated in the Lincoln download manual. The current available is 15 amps,
per manual.
I am interested if I can run a 110v. Lincoln 140 MIG on that circuit. The
required amperage at FULL LOAD is 20 amps. I do not see any breakers on the
SA 200, so don't know what type of protection they have on there if a larger
than acceptable load is put on that circuit. Also, there are two plugs on
the machine. Any way to wire the two together to up the amperage? (maybe
that's the third dumb question ...........)
Can I just use a tester and check the voltage and amperage on those plugs
with the machine running? For the electricital whizzes out there, what does
1.75 kw convert to in layman's terms?
Could I use this intermittently on a very short duty cycle for wrought iron
repairs, or even look for a smaller machine that has less current draw? Is
there such a thing? This would be for small .065" tubing repairs.
If absolutely necessary, I can use the DC part of the welder and 3/32" 6011
DCSP.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
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I recall that utility outlet provided 110V DC, not AC, if that is indeed the case, the answer is "no, no, hell no".
Reply to
Pete C.
That's what Lincoln "LN-25" is for.
It is a wire feed that gets its power from across the arc and can run from a CC source.
i
Reply to
Ignoramus18547
Does this mean if you downloaded two more manuals, you could run 45 amps?
Reply to
Maxwell
Would that be series or parallel?
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
According to page 4 of ONE of the SA-200manuals (not sure which one you have)
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115 volt output is DC, so a wire feed with definitely NOT work. As in fry the wire feed welder instantly kind of not work.
Worse than that, it indicates that there is no real overload protection other than the circuit board. Not a good thing.
SteveB wrote:
Reply to
RoyJ
Just use it to run your grinders, which are very happy running on DC.
Grant
RoyJ wrote:
Reply to
Grant Erwin
And your question is .. ??
Reply to
Grant Erwin
Talked to the local artisan today. A lot of his work is approaching 5 years of age, and occasionally needs a tweak, a lock adjust, a hinge adjustment. He doesn't want to take two guys off making gates and CUSTOM work to go do this.
I, on the other hand, want to go do this light work. Only thing I have to do is get a Lincoln 140 MIG so I can merely plug into the homeowner's 110 power supply. Looks like I may have a good referral source, and as this is normal wear and tear and kids swinging on the gates kinds of fixups, it comes under hourly. We're going to talk again in a couple of days.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
Who put sand in your Granola?
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
Ask Lincoln, if your SA200 is an approved power source for the Lincoln 140 MIG. As always, the manufacturer (NOT Usenet) is the definitive source for information regarding their products. Ask Lincoln for their recommendations for small wire feeders approved for use with your welder.
Checking Volts is very simple, but measuring Amps is a lot more complicated.
As per Ohm's Law, Watts = V*A Amps = Watts/Volts 1750/120V=14.58amps 1750/115V=15.21amps Put a multimeter on the power outlet and measure the actual voltage (DC), I suspect this will vary with generator RPM.
Google 'Ohm's Law'
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's_law Google 'Watt'
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Do you detect a pattern here?
You have commented previously on your use of 6011 with DCSP. I have (as tactfully as possible) suggested that NONE of my electrode manufacturer's electrode manuals suggest or approve of running 6011 on DCSP, YMMV. You may have a source for electrodes from a manufacturer who does approve of their use with DCSP or as I like to say, YMMV. We all do what ever works, and this does occasionally cause us to modify approved procedures, but ONLY when working on non-critical or work without a specified or required procedure. At all times the manufacturer's recommendations are your best guide as they have tested their products extensively and know what procedures yield satisfactory results, and they have every motivation to recommend their products for as wide a range of usage as possible.
I would recommend that you obtain a 'welding electrode guide' from your welding supplies dealer. These guides are normally available free, I often use the 'Welding electrode and wire selector guide' from Liquid Air. These guides are full of handy information and recommendations and are a great aid with both common and specialized electrodes. IMHO an electrode guide (available free from industrial electrode suppliers) and a steel data book (available free from most industrial steel suppliers) are essential items in every weldor's tool kit.
If you wish to limit penetration or burn-through I would suggest you use 6013 (3/32 or 5/64) which is approved for use on 'DC either polarity', IMHO you will have better results running xx10 on your machine as xx11 is really designed for AC, (but is approved for DCRP, and some weldors do have good results with this).
The following comments are OT and IMHO, Teddy Roosevelt was not a weldor OR a tradesman. He lived in a time where technology was very limited and manufacturer's testing and support (and warranty) was almost non-existent. I do not totally disagree with his sentiment, but IMHO it provides little workable guidance regarding today's complex engineering and science. In today's world we routinely work with large loads and complex machinery that Teddy never could have imagined and where failure will be catastrophic for both persons and property. IIRC Teddy's greatest claim to fame (with the support of W.R Hearst's yellow journalism) was the incorrect attribution of a failure of a pressure boiler on the ship the Maine. Perhaps if Teddy had demanded better quality engineering and maintenance he would have not had an excuse to wage a war of aggression on an innocent country. The similarities with today are striking where we find Popular Mechanics (a Hearst publication) crusading in a similar manner to falsely explain current events that are similarly being used to justify wars of aggression and occupation.
Good luck, YMMV
Reply to
Private
There is lots of work done using non standard procedures, but it is often wise to keep this usage to yourself. A local mine company used to demand their welders pass a pipe test using a 7018 (DCSP) root in order to receive the top pay rate. A new weldor reported that when he used his own 6010s for the test, that the inspector told him that (the quite different appearance of the xx10 root) was the best root that he had ever seen and that it was very unusual for anyone to pass this test (which was the reason the company used it, as they thought it saved them money on wages).
There are also approved procedures calling for use of a 7018 DCSP root pass on structural plate. This procedure is not normally referenced by the manufacturer's electrode guide but if the responsible engineer has specified this procedure then its use is required and approved. It is similar to a Doctor prescribing drugs for 'off label' use. A plain dumb weldor should be very careful about using non-approved procedures as this can expose them to expensive issues of liability and failed quality control.
Ornamental iron, fences and gates certainly fall into the 'non-critical' classification. Your technique as described seems correct and the results speak for themselves. I suspect that the same technique would yield even better results with 6013 but YMMV, I would be interested in your comparison report. I do very little work with AC welders and have not used much 6011. Some weldors prefer 6011 even on DC, but most have greater trust in xx10 to pass x-ray testing and almost all jobs specify xx10.
The high quality of your SA200 will give you excellent control at very low power settings, and you may find you like it for very small rods and as a TIG power source (except for aluminum, which is possible with proper flux but is less desirable than AC) particularly if you can find (or build) a high freq unit.
Good luck, YMMV
Reply to
Private
"Private" wrote
I bought a Miller Thunderbolt once. I had a variety of rods. I was looking for something that I could use in the field to repair weld ornamental metal, mostly fences and gates. I put some tubing together, and tried the small 6011. When I tried it with the stinger negative, it would allow me to put down very small puddles and whip the rod, or if I turned the current low enough, to make a continuous weld without burning through. Very slight rod motions, very short arc, and very small puddles, and as soon as one formed, whip out of it.
I do know that the rod is not RECOMMENDED for that polarity, but for THAT specific application, it works great. I used it for years in the field, and amazed a lot of people who said small ornamental tubing had to be wirefed, as it could not be rod welded. Over the years, I have also been amazed at the number of people who swear that the rod just plain will not burn in that configuration. I do not know about anything larger than the 3/32" rod, and possibly the bigger ones won't do it. Maybe there's just the right circumstances for that small one to work.
Sometimes if you don't know what you're doing, it's a little easier, as not so much space is taken up in the brain with facts and absolutes. Or, at least, I have found this to be true for me. I do know that a lot of processes and inventions (the vulcanization of rubber for one) were the results of pure accidents, carelessness, or trying something that everyone said would NOT work.
If you ever get a chance, try it. You may be surprised. Make it just hot enough to keep an arc.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
"SteveB" wrote
I can take two pieces of 1" square .065" tubing and butt weld them together end to end. I don't THINK I can do it, I KNOW I can because I've done it many times to replace a piece of rusted out tubing. I haven't tried it with the SA 200 yet, but know I can do it with a Thunderbolt. I will have to buy some small 6011 here soon. When I get it, I'll try it on the SA 200, and if the welder will do it, I'll post you a picture on Flickr.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
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8 shows Lincoln 6011 listed for AC, DC+ and DC- (preferred in that order)
I used it for years in the field, and
DC and small rod can do wonders on ornamental tube. The big bonus on wirefeed is that you don't have to chip slag but otherwise the stick works fine. I actually prefer it for poor fitup work, much better control of temp and puddle. Changing the polarity will move the heat around, may work better for certain work.
But be sure to try some decent 6013 on new work, AC is fine, DC is smoother with less slag.
Reply to
RoyJ
I have been in a lot of welding situations in my life. Had various certs. Welded and cut underwater. Just seen and done a lot.
Right now, all I want are the guys who will pay me $100 cash (or more) to come out and weld up his gate he crashed or his kid swung on or that has a rusted hinge. Jobs that a lot of welding companies won't even come out and look at. I don't need to do this to pay the rent, and I don't need to make $8,000 a month just to pay for the new truck, new equipment, advertising, shop, and (EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!) EMPLOYEES ................. shudder .................... And then hope there's enough left to have a paycheck myself.
I'm physically unable to work in a shop environment because of health concerns and PTSD. And any more, I don't work and play well with others. I have friends and family, but I find most of society just plain repulsive or taking up usable oxygen.
So, as by filling a small niche in the market, I have a slot. I have this habit of showing up on time, being fair, and doing good work. I know that I'll do it better than 90% of the weldors out there. I know that when I leave, the weld will last and the customer will be happy to have his problem solved. I am sure that the homeowner won't care about such things as polarity and rod choice. When I get someone like that, I usually find a reason NOT to do the job, as they will be fussy about everything.
Still interested in playing with the 6013 and see maybe I'm missing something. I am not opposed to new things and learning.
As for doing it by the book, been there, done that, got the welding cap. Now, it's just nuts and bolts and KISS. And, I forgot................ In God We Trust. All others pay cash.
Steve
PS: We close for deer season.
Reply to
SteveB
"Private" wrote
This is very encouraging, as a lot of work may be done with small rods. I'm going to also buy a Lincoln 140, and make a cart to wheel around, as that makes it a lot easier than dragging out cables. But, I know I can use the small rods on that machine if I have to. I am going to do some SS and granite fountain work, so it is nice to hear the SA will handle that, too.
You are a fountain of information, and I thank you again.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
My wife gives me crap because I think most people are just taking up space. Glad to know there are others.
Reply to
johnnytorch
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Cash is nice, and can solve a lot of problems. Managing accounts receivable is one of the least productive parts of independent business.
'Money may not buy happiness, but it can rent it for a while.'
This is a really nice niche to service and the margins can be much higher than big jobs, the consumable costs are also much lower and we don't need to work in the rain.
I don't need to do this to pay the rent, and I don't need to make
Independence is its own reward and it allows you freedom to do only the interesting and profitable jobs.
I am fortunite to have never needed to endure the health concerns of shop air and noise. My personal health is too important to compromise.
and PTSD. And any more, I don't work and play well with others. I
I am in full agreement with you here and I too 'do not suffer fools gladly'.
Don't limit yourself to only homeowners or end users, there is lots of small commercial work that goes begging for tradesmen who do not need a lot of hand-holding and have the resources and patience to complete work to a high standard. Lots of needs go unfulfiled because of lack of solutions. A famous drill company had their epiphany when they realized people did not want to buy drills, they wanted holes.
I use very little 6013 and it is not a rod I like very much, but for the specialized fast-follow and low-penetration jobs it is handy and I always keep a little on my rig..
Learning new things keeps us interested and young at heart.
We all need our priorities, on our deathbeds, none of us will wish we had worked more.
Good luck and have fun.
Reply to
Private
Find some 5/64 - 6013 but don't buy very many, they are expensive per lb but there are a lot of rods in a lb and most little jobs only take a couple of rods. I doubt that I use 1/4 lb / year but they will let you weld some very thin steel.
I am also in the market for a small MIG that I can power with my main portable for use on small stuff and to make clean up easier on ornamental and handrail pickets. The high (and probably going higher) price of gasoline makes a electric utility powered rig a bargain that will pay for itself quickly.
I will be interested to hear how the granite rods weld.
Glad to be helpful.
Reply to
Private

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