Construction - accessibility issue

Well, with the exception of parkies and foamies, most of our models have removeable wings. Nothing terribly hard about plugging and un-plugging aileron servo extensions.

abracadabra wrote:

Ok .... what's a

- parkie ? - foamie ?

Do you actually detach the actuator arms from servos every time you remove wings ?

Or are the servos so small that their profile allows them to fit directly into the wing cavity and the only thing protruding is a wiring harness and connector ?

Thanks,

Eric

eric - time to hit the newbies forum in

Spend a week browsing that, and ask yerquestions there.

FAR more people chatting about what you want to know, than here.

no. acruator stays in wing. unplug elecrtical connector...

yes.

Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

The easiest way to do this is to make the main wing detachable. In larger planes the main wing is typically held on with rubber bands or bolts (usually nylon). There is no reason this could not be done with smaller planes. With the main wing detachable all you need to do is plug the connectors for the ailerons into the receiver and in multi engines, also plug the motor controls into the ESC.

From your post I think you are new to RC. The planes you have mentioned, while very nice, are not planes for beginners or to learn on. These planes are for after you have learned how to fly.

For aerial photos/video, I would strongly suggest going to a glow powered plane. The additional weight of the equipment is probably going to be too much for an electric powered plane.

Are you suggesting that the web site mentioned has replaced the purpose of this newsgroup ?

If so, and I am truly interested in knowing, why are you reading this news feed ? What specifically do you expect this feed to provide that you cannot get elsewhere ? My purpose is to decide whether to continue subscribing to this feed.

Thank you,

Eric

Sorry, didn't mean to lose you. :)

"Parkie" or "Park Flyer" is a somewhat misnomer of a term used to describe very small aircraft capable of being flow in a neighborhood park or large back yard.

"Foamies" are generally larger, built from sheet foam, electric, with Astronomical power-to-weight ratios.

Yes, in a "40-size" or larger plane, the aileron servo(s) are generally build into the wing, so only the electrical lead is disconnected.

(To prevent the next question, "40-size" refers to a plane sized to take a 0.40 cubic inch glow engine, and is a commonly used way to describe the size of a model plane. 40 being the most common size for a basic trainer, generally resulting in an approximate 1/5 scale model.)

Steve

abracadabra wrote:

......

......

Thank you for your concern and advice. It is appreciated.

However, I think I'll be able to get into it OK. I don't like wasting too much time on "practice models" when I can rely on good advice.

- mechanical engineer ('80) - Pratt&Whitney Canada mfg process planning/development (5 yrs) - 5axis CNC programming before 3D CAD took out the fun - design automation systems support - UNIX systems and networking support

Eric

Maybe I missed something in the "assumed" knowledge.

Do most models rely ONLY on flaps in the ailerons attached to the tail ?

Is it rare to have flaps in the main wings ?

Eric

| "Ted Campanelli" wrote -- ... | > From your post I think you are new to RC. The planes you have | > mentioned, while very nice, are not planes for beginners or to learn on. | > These planes are for after you have learned how to fly. ... | Thank you for your concern and advice. It is appreciated. | | However, I think I'll be able to get into it OK. I don't like wasting | too much time on "practice models" when I can rely on good advice.

You appear to be ignoring good advice already.

Would I also be correct in guessing that you won't be needing any assistance in setting this plane up to fly, or in getting the hang of flying R/C?

| - mechanical engineer ('80) | - Pratt&Whitney Canada mfg process planning/development (5 yrs) | - 5axis CNC programming before 3D CAD took out the fun | - design automation systems support | - UNIX systems and networking support

Oh yeah. Those skills will help you fly.

When you do build your first plane, whatever warbird it is, be sure to bring a friend out with a good video camera to record your first flight. It will probably be a very entertaining 30 seconds, and we'd all like to see it.

Not to knock your UNIX systems and networking support skills, but it's a story I've heard many times --

A new person show up at the field, with a very nice scratch or kit built model of some sort. So the people at the field talk to him a bit about it, and it turns out that he was a pilot during the war and now flies commercial airliners for a living or something similar. Since he has so much experience flying already, he decided to skip the trainer, and went straight to the P-51 warbird or whatever. (Maybe he flew it in the war!) No, he's never flown R/C before, but he'll be fine -- no need for an instructor, or anybody to go over his plane for him. The regulars give up, seek shelter and watch.

So he fights with the engine for a while, finally gets it going, and taxis the plane out, gives it power and it takes off. It starts banking a little left, then a little more, then a lot more, then it's inverted, and then it makes like a lawn dart. (Not quite the famous `figure 9', but close.) Turns out he had his ailerons reversed ...

Or he finally gets it started, takes off, it flies nicely, then he turns around to come back, and makes a lawn dart out of it. Turns out he got confused about the orientation of the plane, and went left when he should have gone right.

Or he finally gets it started, takes off after a long run, and the plane is all over the place, and he finally makes a lawn dart out of it. Turns out that when he was building the kit, he kept thinking that parts were too weak and beefed them up. This happened the most in the tail, making the plane very tail heavy and so uncontrollable.

Getting the idea? You certainly wouldn't be the first person to think that they should skip the trainer, and probably won't be the last.

By stating my qualifications and skills, I was not stating that I was a know-it-all.

I was simply indicating that I have had much experience at examining difficult situations and approaching things methodically. Sometimes this was when nobody else in industry had done it before, so I approached them VERY timidly ... but resolutely because I had a clear sense of the objective.

As for your advice, it has NOT been ignored. I like to keep topics segregated so as not to create confusing discussion strings.

You may notice 2 separate posts, with titles starting - Flight School ... - Training School ...

Someone, possibly yourself, replied with a web site for beginners. I did not ignore it. I went straight to it ... only to be told

" SORRY ... this site is too busy to talk right now ... go away and come back another day "

OK, maybe I am paraphrasing with a bit of emotion thrown in. The response is the last thing that an admitted novice wants to hear.

One thing I have not mentioned before is that I am also taking a course on Training and Development. The approach one must take, as a teacher is to be

- open to questions - use student feedback to modify the approach for teaching - address student's topic directly, bringing to his attention relevant considerations that orient his further learning and motivation.

I was assuming that people who respond to newsgroups inherently have the need to feel recognized and valued by coming forward to assist those who put aside their pride and reveal their area of weakness or lack of knowledge.

I am sorry ... I realize that what I have just stated may seem like lecturing and I apologize. My intent is to share information that I have learned to help communicate my confusion at the content of your latest response.

I DO NOT want to turn off the tap to your knowledge.

I want to help direct the flow - from the expert (YOU) - to the novice (ME) ... if I may be allowed to indicate the direction of my interests.

BTW, I searched thru the web for about 2 weeks for information about RC, air/water models, before plunging into the newsgroups.

My experience so far is mixed. - half the responses very helpful - half the responses off-topic

Thank you for hearing me out,

Eric

The horizontal control surface on the tail is called the "elevator" - it controls the pitch of the aircraft (nose up, nose down).

The tail also has a vertical control surface called the "rudder" and it controls the yaw of the aircraft (nose side to side).

The main wing control surfaces are called "ailerons", they control the rotation of the aircraft along its length, or roll.

Some aircraft have additional control surfaces on the main wing called "flaps", they are similar to ailerons, located closer to the fuselage than the ailerons and are designed to change the camber of the main wing airfoil to assist in landing and takeoff by allowing a slower airspeed before stalling (stall = plane stops flying and falls out of the air). Ailerons always (more or less) operate alternately to roll the plane, flaps always work together deflecting downwards.

While some trainers do have flaps, they aren't regarded as necessary for the majority of trainer- and sport-type aircraft, however many warbirds have them due to high wing-loadings and stalling tendancies, and for "scale" look and behaviour.

At this stage I wouldn't be overly concerned about flaps until you have progressed past your trainer.

Might I suggest you try the free FMS (Flying Model Simulator) package as an entry point:

Initially you will only be able to control the aircraft with keyboard or joystick, however, in a crude sense it gives you an idea of the basics of controlling a model aircraft.

Once you obtain a transmitter, you can get a cable that allows you to interface it with your PC, which allows you to do valuable risk-free practice before trying the real thing.

yes.

occasionally its a good larf.

And out of public spiritedness.

Eric, I really do hope you take the advice of some of the people who have answered your posts and learn how to fly using something that's stable and forgiving, i.e., a trainer. I appreciate your education and skill level, however, flying a model airplane is sort of like learning to play a musical instrument -- you have to learn some motor skills and train your brain to control your fingers without having to stop and think. And, like playing an instrument, it's learned through practice!

Also, you were concened about not having enough space to fit a camera-equipped plane in your car. There are a number of trainers out there (Horizon makes one) that have two-piece wings that simplify transport and storage. Also, a trainer flies slowly compared to a scale-like warbird and the flat-bottomed airfoils they use generate a lot of lift so they don't mind the weight of a camera. This makes them excellent platforms for aerial photography. If you MUST have a warbird, change the color scheme on the trainer to make it look like an L-4, L-19 or any of the Piper Cub/Cessna planes the military has used over the years as observation aircraft.

Morris

Have you tried other Model flight simulators ?

If so, what factors led you to make the above your final choice ?

Thank you,

Eric

Here is a link to an electric trainer airplane.

is a link on the page to the manual. If you look at it, you'll see how the wing mounting works and how the control surfaces are hooked up.

It's free.

Slight clarification:

When I decide to BUILD a model, it will be "full-size", not smaller.

As for flight training, it is only logical to do so on a "throw-away" that we have not invested too much time or money on, hence pre-built.

Thank you,

Eric