Electric Pattern Planes

I am looking for an electric competition grade Pattern plane. Anyone have any recommendations for such a plane.
Electrics have come such a looking way in the last year I am hoping
that someone has built and marketed one by now that can be flown in competition.
Thanks for you help and...
Happy Flying
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Just about any pattern plane can be converted to electric. I would look for one of the built up models so you can control the weight a little better. Power for this kind of plane will be VERY expensive, in the $1000 range.
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Paul McIntosh
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Yeah, if you don't watch it, it could cost as much as the latest, high-zoot YS engine with accessories to make it run.
We haven't mentioned the cost of fuel yet, have we? <G>
Ed Cregger
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check out Mountain Models website and Stevens Aero website. Both make great E pattern kits.

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great
I am a newbie at electric, but I am interested enough, after having purchased a few low power electrics, to look into buying a muscle bound propulsion set up for my Great Planes Fun One (5.5 lbs.). I want the model to be powered as well as it would be with my Webra .50 onboard, but lighter, if possible.
Any hints? TIA
Ed Cregger
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Ed Cregger wrote:

To get lighter and have as much power is a real challenge Ed.
The good news is that Lithium batteries and probably a good 600W plus outrunner would be a good match for the airframe.
here are some possible motors for you - you will probably have to reconstitute the URL if your reader wraps lines.
You would need something like a 6s LIPO pack capable of 45A or better.
http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&kategorie=m_neodym_ac&id_rady=axi_41&id_produktu=axi_4130_16&nazev_rady=Series%20AXI%2041&hmotnost_rady =(320%20-%20409%20g)
Much better to pop over to the Ezone (RCGROUPS) and ask there though. www.ezonemag.com
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http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&kategorie=m_neodym_ac&id_rady=axi_41&id_produktu=axi_4130_16&nazev_rady=Series%20AXI%2041&hmotnost_rady =(320%20-%20409%20g)
Much appreciated.
Ed Cregger
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 04:46:46 -0400, "Ed Cregger"

Ed
I'm in the process of converting a .46 size Great Planes U Can Do 3d which will be in the 5.5 - 6 lb range ready to fly.
Here is what I bought for the conversion You can vary the price a little with your choice of brands but not much.
1 Axi 4120/18 Outrunner motor 11.7 oz 146.73 1 Jeti Advance 7-3P OPTO ESC 2 oz 128.27 1 Ultimate BEC 1 oz 34.90 1 Radial Mount set & prop adapter 1 oz 28.90 5 2 cell 1500 ma LiPoly packs @ 31.20 2.8 oz 156.00 5 3 cell 1500 ma LiPoly packs @ 45.50 4.0 oz 227.50
Total weight of 49.7 oz
My Enya .80 24 oz 500 ma flight pack 4 oz 12 oz fuel approx 10 oz
Total weight of glow power system approx 38 oz at take off
A total investment of 722.30 in power system. I'm sure there will be some misc items such as connectors , switches etc that will probably run 50.00 bucks or so and of course some asstd props at 5-6 bucks each.
I planned on a 5s5p battery configuration which will give me 18.5 volts and 7500 mah. May be a little more than I need so I'm going with a 3s3p first to see how that does....which will also lighten my system 13.6 oz for a total of 36 oz which puts me in the range of a glow system.
I'm not sure how much the weight difference between 3s3p and 5s5p will affect flight duration and performance but I suppose I will find out.
It's not cheap but I think it will be worth it. Although I still fly glow , I 've been flying electrics very actively for about 4 years now but these have all been small , lightweight aicraft in the 1-2 lb range.
Looking forward to trying out the U Can Do. :-)
Ken Day
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model
lighter,
I see that my Charter cable system is on the blink, which would explain why my response, made many, many hours ago, never made it to the newsgroup. This is why I maintain one of the ultra cheap dial-up providers - "Just In Case". 8^>
What does 5s5p mean? It looks like 5 in series with 5 in parallel? I doubt that...
I used to fly a little competition fun fly, so a flight duration of 5 minutes would be plenty for me.
How long does it take to charge the Li-Poly packs? If you want to fly the way you would with a glow powered plane, can you do it with a field charger? Or do you need to have multiple packs pre-charged?
Why did you choose that particular motor? I'm curious. I would like to learn some of the logic that you employed, even if it was cost based.
That's a lot of questions. I'm sorry if I have loaded you down with too much. Thanks for jumping in there and providing some useful information.
Ed Cregger
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Ed Cregger wrote:

It does mean just that. 25 cells

It takes over an hour to fuylly recahrge packs, but if you run tehm conservaticely (advised for decent life on teh v expensive packs) you should get 3 5 minute flights between full recharges, and maybe a 20 minute charge time aftre a single flight. I find with take off and landing and some low throttle flying, it takes me about twice as long to recharge as the total length of flight - i.e. all of it from walking out with te planbe, checking out, takeoff/alnding and retrieval etc.
I can get aanuthing from 15 minute sto 490 minurtes out of one charge as well, which often means I simply don't bother to field charge at all.

Its a very good replacement for a 40 sized glo - similar power/RPM curve to a decent 4-stroke ands turns similar sized props without needing a gearbox. Its not horrendously exensive.
PACKS are almost more important than motors you will find. The batteries are what proiduces the power. The motor is just a small part of the overall power train.

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Thanks TNP. Much appreciated.
Ed Cregger
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On Sun, 22 May 2005 01:20:38 -0400, "Ed Cregger"

I have a total of 10 packs....five 2 cell and five 3 cell 1500 ma. I wired one 2 and one 3 cell in series to get 18.5 volts. Then I wired those five in parallel to get 7500 ma. I think I will change it to 5s3p after talking to some electric flyers who are getting 10-12 minutes aggressive flying with this configuration in the same weight 3d type aircraft.

I think I will change it to 5s3p (18.5 v 4500 ma) after talking to some electric flyers who are getting 10-12 minutes aggressive flying with this configuration in the same weight 3d type aircraft. It should do (on paper) 6.75 min at full throttle.

I can charge all the packs in one hour on my Astro Flight 109 D. It has a max charge rate of 8 amps and it will actually do that. I have a parallel charging module that I picked up at Hobby Lobby.You can plug up to 5 packs into it. It was cheaper than buying enough Deans connectors to make my own and very convenient.

Actually , it wasn't cost based. As you can see I spent a few bucks , so I wasn't going to let a few dollars more ruin my experience.
I chose that particular motor because:
(1) I like outrunners.I have other smaller ones and I really like them. No gearboxes. Very smooth , quite power.
(2) It will handle the voltage and amperage to get the total watts I need .18.5v x 40 amp = 740 watts which gives me approx 125 watts per pound which will give me the performance I want.
(3) I have seen many electric conversion articles where they used the same motor with excellent results.
(5) and most important.....it's real "pretty"....and sexy , in that black and gold case. :-)...add a shiny prop adapter...Mmmm...mm.

No problem at all.
Ken Day
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On Sun, 22 May 2005 01:20:38 -0400, "Ed Cregger"

Ed , almost forgot. As "Natural" said in one his posts , the most important part are the batteries. Thats really where you start when you are deciding on a power system.
First figure how many watts per pound you need , how many minutes flying time and that will determine the batteries you need. Then find a motor and speed control to handle them. I may be oversimplifying things a bit , but thats the basic process. Unlike glow , electric motors have a wide power range depending on what you feed them and how you prop them. Thats why it's hard to compare to a glow engine.
Ken Day
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wrote:

Thanks again. I have much to learn.
Ed Cregger
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Yep. 5 series and 5 parallel.
Most packs safely charge at 1C. Some can tolerate 2C. That means you will spend a little over one hour for a complete charge at 1C and a little over 1/2 hour at 2C. At least this is my experience with my Multiplex charger. It charges at the set current until the battery is about 90% charged then the current drops off quite a bit to top it off.
--
Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com
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Ed,
I am also looking at the electric scene. I think that right now, a .32 size plane is about optimum for performance electrics without going overboard on cost. I am designing one with some unique design features. Shoule be very light. I am also testing some batteries I got from a supplier overseas.
--
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http://www.rc-bearings.com
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Paul McIntosh wrote:

.32 is a nice size Paul.
About 350 watts - say 35A and 10v or so, 3s2p of 2200 cells or so.
Axi 2820/10...12x6...
Should lift a 2-3lb plane straight up.
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Ed,
If you want to talk equivalent power to the latest YS, you will be in the multiple thousands for electrics. Figure out what it takes to get 2100 watts of power for 15 minutes.
--
Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com
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On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:13:09 +0100, "Paul McIntosh"

Paul , I know you addressed Ed but I would like to say that it would be expensive , but not quite in the multi thousands. Pattern flyers are using electric more and more and getting long flight times without a leg and arm investment. I'm not sure why you would need 2100 watts for 15 minutes since no one flys the whole pattern at full throttle. We're talking a15 lb airplane when we get into that much wattage.
Here's an approximate estimate of what it would cost ...mind you , I said approximate since I'm certainly no authority on electric models.
1 Motor and speed control approx 400.00 4 Thunder Power 5s4p 6,400 ma packs @339.00 1356.00 Misc connectors adapters etc 50.00
Wire these in a 10s8p configuration and you will get 37 volts and 12,800 ma. 37 volts @ 55 amps will give you approx 2035 watts. This will equate to about 14 minutes of flight time at full throttle.
Actually you won't need this much battery but I'm just trying to get at your figure of 2100 watts for 15 minutes. I don't know how to figure what percentage of throttle to use in pattern flying , but someone here probably does.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ken Day
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1356.00

The handwriting is on the wall. It won't be too many more months/years before electric power dominates pattern. It is kind of sad in a way. It will mark the end of an era. Then again, I see the same thing coming for automobiles/trucks/vans.
Once the price of batteries drops to about a 1/5th of current prices, glow flying will be strictly for the sake of nostalgia.
Ed Cregger
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