Heli tregedy

Terrible news

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Be safe out there!

Reply to
Frank
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Wow...Condolences to Ron's family.

Don

Reply to
Don Hatten

One thing I picked up from this is that the 911 operators didn't know where they were. This was debated at a couple of clubs I belonged to and we finally made up a map of the flying site with directons and gave it to the local sheriff department and fire department. Also, the emergency phone numbers of the closest ambulance, fire house and sheriff substation were posted in big letters at both sites. Unfortunately, this occurred after the death of a pylon cage worker at an event I was CD at.

Reply to
Paul McIntosh

Indeed.

One cannot but wonder whether the local club was so beleaguered with satisfying AMA administrivial crapola (by-laws, among other things) that they never got around to providing the local 911 authorities with road directions, GPS and lat/long data, and a map of the flying site.

When it takes EMTs 35-40 minutes to reach someone who is bleeding to death, it could be that it was a long trip.

It could also be that the EMTs and their dispatcher had no idea where the flying site was located nor how to get there.

Thanks, AMA, for keeping us busy with bullshit agendas and ignoring the important stuff like helping keep one of our own alive.

AMA members should think about this next time you get a ballot in the mail.

Do you want finely-tuned club by-laws and an ever-increasing number of turbine and giant scale restrictions, or do you want an organization which is less concerned with administrivia and is focused on _safety_ and the well-being of the members ?

Pissed at Muncie, I am.

Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

Unfortunately that issue is one that seems to be constantly overlooked by most of the local clubs. I KNOW for a fact that an issue has been made of EMS knowing about your flying field location in the past.

Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High

A couple of years ago, one of our older members suffered a heart attack after landing his giant scale plane. At the time, we had two ER nurses flying at the field, the ambulance crew arrived within just a few minutes, but the guy died. We were informed that there was nothing we or the EMS people could have done for him. 35 minutes is an eternity when trying to control massive bleeding, though. We also have a cell phone that will dial

911 only. Informing EMS of just where you are is very important.

Reply to
me

Reply to
Roger

Fred,

There may be a lot of reasons to bash the AMA, but this tragedy is not one of them. You have NO IDEA why EMS took so long to reach this unfortunate individual, and your speculation goes way beyond shameless! IMHO, you are using this tragedy to advance your own political (or whatever) agenda. Shame on you!

John

Fred McClellan wrote:

Reply to
John Morley

It was not I who posted the notion that the EMS folks were delayed by lack of location information. After you learn to read you might try that URL again.

What was it about LIFE MEMBER in the sig line that you didn't understand ? How DARE you call me an AMA-basher, thickhead !

FUCK YOU !

The current "leadership" of AMA hasn't got enough brains to fill a thimble for a pissant.

We're jumping through every sort of administrative hoop imaginable.

We're being _threatened_ with having to be qualified to fly our toys.

The jet guys are so overly regulated it isn't funny, and there are more such regs on the way.

Leader Members are a continuing source of targets for some EC members, particularly McNeill. Read the most recent EC agenda, for the

11/01/03 meeting. Count 'em dude. TWO more measures aimed directly at Leader Members.

Club by-laws are about to become a real threat to chartered clubs. That is, those clubs which decide they want to jump through some more artificial political AMA hoops.

How much effort would it have taken for the EC to mandate that clubs provide their location data to the local 911 authorities ? NOT MUCH, but they're way too busy pursuing private political agendas to do any real work.

How much work will local clubs have to do to comply with the festering club by-laws blister ? A lot.

How much work is it to pass location information along to the local

911 authorities ? Damn little.

Which of those two activities is more likely to save one of our fellow modelers ?

I doubt seriously that Leader Member agitation, club by-laws mandates, and a new "pilot licensing" scheme can be considered a life-saving benefit to AMA or it's members.

Being able to get medical help in a timely fashion just might do it, though.

Is Muncie thinking along those lines ?

Are you KIDDING ?

Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

Not really.

Unless you'd rather have the Executive Council do your thinking for you.

It takes a lot less effort to mandate that clubs furnish their location data to local 911 authorities than it takes to invent two, three, or four versions of near-mandatory club by-laws which will in turn require a good bit of effort on the part of local clubs.

How much effort does it take for a local club to make a phone call and pass along location information ?

Not much.

Which of the two above activities is productive in the real world ?

Never mind . . . your mind can't reach that far, can it ? Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

Gosh, Fred! You are starting to sound like a Brit! By your own admission, it takes damn little to give out the 911 info. SO WHY DOESN"T A CLUB DO IT ON THEIR OWN? Why do they have to be TOLD to do something so important?

Reply to
Paul McIntosh

Snipetty-snip

Fred has gone to the Bozo Bin.

Reply to
Server

Does anyone know whether it was survivable with competent first aid?

i.e. if you e.g. pasted a piece of shirt over the gash with CA, would that have prevented major blood loss and/or brain damage?

Faced with a buddy bleeding to death in front of me, I hope I would have tried something...I hope... :-(

15-20 minutes for a remote location sounds pretty much par for the course, sadly. I doubt I would get a faster response here at home, and if it happens to me, I'd like to know what to do...
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Fred,

You are just an ignorant asshole! With dickheads like you in the hobby, we certainly have more to fear from the likes of you than the AMA!!! And if you're such a tough guy, I'm in the book, so look me up and come and I'll give you an attitude adjustment! You little pathetic man, you!!

John

Fred McClellan wrote:

Reply to
John Morley

'Ol Fred has been sent to the kill file, along with the other nitwits like HCain, JR, ad nausem.

Rein

Reply to
Rein

Maybe because they never thought of it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Hopefully, a lot of people read this thread and do something about it.

Wiz

. SO WHY DOESN"T A CLUB DO IT

Reply to
Mike Wizynajtys

If I recall correctly the unit dispatched is housed 10 minutes from the accident site but was delayed 35 minutes over squabbles about which emergency agency was responsible. I don't think it would have made much difference in this particular case due to the nature of the injury, but I am NOT a medical specialist. A somewhat trained medical individual was there.

In this case Fred is right, the local club blew it by NOT providing the 911 folks with the correct instructions. It takes some work when your flying field is near any political boundaries (city or county or whatever) but the effort CAN be vital to an individuals survival. Please take corrective action TODAY, even if Dr. Frank thinks this incident might not be true as his e-mail indicates.

This is a recurring problem each and everyone of us must commit to correct A.S.A.P. We had an incident involving a spectator and a gun several years ago, so we were forced to find out who to call for help. We MUST stop relying on someone else to do this task, as it clearly is not getting done very well at all and people's lives do depend on it from time to time.

Now, I do wonder where Fred has a signature block that indicates he is a Life Member and not an AMA-basher.

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

Six_O'clock_High Target snipped-for-privacy@Guns.com

Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High

I've seen that kind of thing before, but with results nowhere near as tragic, if indeed delays were even a factor here. When I was 21 (some time ago) I arrived home from work to find my folk's house on fire (well established fire, not just starting) and the fire trucks arriving behind me. They were delayed in responding to my mom's phone call by nearly 15 minutes due to an operator mixup about which fire department was to respond, and my mom being in a total panic when she called. As a result the foundations were saved but little else. This was before the days of emergency numbers on all rural properties and I believe 911 call tracing has evolved a lot since then too.

This was indeed a real tragedy - I even heard a blip about it this morning on our classic rock station in Toronto. The owner of the company I work for had the radio go AWOL on his .30 heli last summer, and his chopper cruised around randomly at about two feet altitude in the back forty for a couple of minutes while he hid behind the dumpster. Eventually it struck a blade on a grade and stopped, but he was pretty concerned for his safety, and rightly so. He was alone at the time too - what if?? I won't fly anything but park flyers alone.

Mike D.

Reply to
M Dennett

Thanks, no.

I've wasted far too much time trying to get you to see the light of day.

Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

Because the chartered clubs are kept busy dealing with all the emerging administrative requirements coming out of Muncie.

For over a year now, three of the four clubs in which I hold membership have been wrestling with the soon-to-be-mandatory club by-laws, wherein several of the items pose fundamental conflicts with the way the clubs have operated for a very long time.

BTW - three of those clubs have three-digit charter numbers; they've been around a very long time and have been very successful thus far.

The club officers spend all their club time being jerked around by Muncie and have adopted a mind set which allows them to _deal_ with Muncie.

Of course, that might be why fewer and fewer clubs are opting to _charter_ with AMA. Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

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