I'd like some feedback

Thank you for saying what I didn't have the patience to say.

EVERY 2.4Ghz setup has SOME basic design issues. Futaba is probably (once they have this issue sorted properly), the best, BUT that isn't going to stop me or anyone else pointing out that this particular issue was a fundamental design flaw: And in the USA it has NOT been well handled, unlike Europe where the sets are being swapped out FOC.

Futaba tried to cover the problem up by claiming it was a few sets that went out unprogrammed, but within days several users had managed to reset their IDs by switching the sets on and off quickly (long enough to check the battery, not long enough to fully boot the system) the transmitters all reset their GUIDS to zero, thus placing them on a common logical channel.

There is some evidence that leaving the sets on and the batteries running flat would also cause this, but its not been fully proven.

This effect is fully implied in European distributors documentation on the problem, but strangely absent from US distributors documentation.

One assumes this is because of the overly litigious nature of US consumer law.

The point was, it was not a production issue:sets can be 'reprogrammed

to GUID zero by switching on, checking long enough to see the battery i OK, and switching off.

Its is arguable as to whether any did indeed leave the factor unprogrammed, as it is common practice when selling sets to perfor exactly this check in the shop.

You may read the discussion here and make up your own minds

-- vintage

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| And in the USA it has NOT been well | handled, unlike Europe where the sets are being swapped out FOC.

They were charging in the US? | Futaba tried to cover the problem up by claiming it was a few sets that | went out unprogrammed, but within days several users had managed to | reset their IDs

Futaba probably originally believed that some sets went out unprogrammed and that was the only problem. It makes sense, anyways.

Later, we learned that you could force this to happen yourself by turning off at the right instant, which leads me to believe that _this_ is the (only) cause of the lost GUIDs -- perhaps it happened in the factory during testing, or perhaps it happened later when the end-users had them, but it makes perfect sense.

And yes, the fact that turning the system off at the right instant can clear/corrupt the internal memory (or part of it, whatever) would certainly qualify as a design flaw.

| There is some evidence that leaving the sets on and the batteries | running flat would also cause this, but its not been fully proven.

It also doesn't really make sense.

| This effect is fully implied in European distributors documentation on | the problem, but strangely absent from US distributors documentation. | | One assumes this is because of the overly litigious nature of US | consumer law.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure that's Futaba's fault.

Either way, are you saying they if your radio has this problem, they won't fix it for free in the US?

Snip of Fred's rant

Fred, Lighten up before you have an aneurysm. I moved away from Futaba over 20 years ago shortly after three 7 channel gold boxes failed immediately after I got them back from Futaba service. What clinched my move was when the first flight on a new 6 channel box my plane began an uncommanded roll. I got lucky and landed and when THAT radio came back, I traded for old used Airtronics equipment and until now have never looked back. What is the saying? Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me, and there won't be a third time. The repairs were first and the new radio was second. My choice was made because I did not feel the Futaba actions were coordinated enough for me to risk endangering the public through my models using their defective or improperly repaired equipment.

However, Airtronics has made their share of mistakes in that 20+ years. Fred, the real point is that Futaba has been known to make mistakes just like the rest of us. They have never been, are not now, and will never be omnipotent. For years I heard that JR had radios only the stupid used and for years Airtronics radios were only used by dummies too stupid to buy JR. Now JR has some of the best all around radios on the market and some big name folks flying large scale birds use Airtronics because of the capabilities of the big transmitters.

I have begun the move from Airtronics simply because I am not impressed with their market penetration in the 2.4 GHz field and because I won a Spektrum after they had been on the market almost a year. I was waiting to see if any technical issues showed up and they did. There seems to be a programming glitch in the AR7000 receivers that Horizon appears to be willing to correct FOC (from what I have heard). It has to do with brownout conditions and reboots. My first RX probably goes in the mail in the morning for correction so it is equal to the new one I installed as a replacement Saturday.

YMMV so in that case I will use the words of one of your heroes, be well. :)

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:11:27 -0500, "Six_O'Clock_High"

Stays where you left it.

Switching F/S between armed and disarmed states requires holding the Tx module's F/S button while powering up the Tx.

I have had JR, Futaba, and Airtronics over the years. The BEST by far has been the Airtronics. I can honestly say I have NEVER had a problem with Airtronics since using the original Sanwa radios in the 70's! I just bought the new Airtronics 2.4ghz. I'll let you know how it goes. I also have the Futaba 7C 2.4ghz. I guess time will tell.

"Six_O'Clock_High"

I'll second that. I've been using Airtronics since 1990, and the only time I've ever had trouble was after I crashed and cracked a crystal.

Jim wrote:

-----------

I have owned and flown one Airtronics radio. It was a six channel rig that I bought in 1985. It never missed a beat the two years I flew it. I would buy another Airtronics in a heartbeat, were I in the market for another sport radio.

Ed Cregger

The newer Airtronics radios have a lot of the same programmable features as JR and Futaba!

"Jim" wrote

---------------

I know, but I'm heavily invested in JR and recently Futaba again. I wish Futaba would drop the stupid tabs on their servos and adapt the universal plugs that everyone else uses. I get tired of trimming them off.

Or, inversely, JR and Airtronics could adapt the tabs. I don't care which.

Ed Cregger

| I know, but I'm heavily invested in JR and recently Futaba again. I wish | Futaba would drop the stupid tabs on their servos and adapt the universal | plugs that everyone else uses. I get tired of trimming them off.

Well, Hitec and JR uses. Airtronic's servo plugs are worse -- you can file their tabs off too (and don't forget to fix the ordering of the wires), and that works, but then the plug never quite fits right, especially if you have several in a row like that.

| Or, inversely, JR and Airtronics could adapt the tabs. I don't care which.

I like the Futaba tabs -- they do the job (keep you from plugging in backwards) better than the slightly rounded edges on one side that Hitec and JR use. But either works well enough, and the Hitec/JR method is probably the closest to a `standard'.

Haha, yeah, those tabs are a PITA!

NO! Airtronics has used universal plugs for many years now. Granted, the old plugs were worse than the Futabas!

| NO! Airtronics has used universal plugs for many years now. Granted, the old | plugs were worse than the Futabas!

I haven't bought any new Airtronics gear in years, so maybe I'm out of touch. You mean they got rid of these plugs?

Yes, the blue stuff in "standardized" to the JR/Hitec plugs and will fit in Futaba. Been that way well over 5 years.

Hey Aard Like the page ans spent about an hour reading. Thanks fo

putting it up as now there may be some honest reviews on the net

-- starca

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Could you put dates on your articles/reviews? Sometimes accuracy "fades" with age; products get modified (for better or worse).