Mathewson VP Dist II reports on turbine regs

Does the insult "POTTY MOUTH" ring any bells for you ?

Sauce for the goose, twit. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust

Nice try, no cigar.

I'm not going to build a case brief for you amusement. I provided the references you requested. If you want the details you'll just have to read those references yourself.

Accusing me of not providing them is a bald-faced lie. I specifically provided the reference to James Bovard's "Terrorism And Tyranny" to you last November.

Personal insults ?

See if any of these terms seem at all familiar :

stupid uneducated ignoramus stupid Ugly American stupid

Sure sound like personal insults, to me, although you do seem to have a predisposition toward stupid. And you don't limit that kind comment to AMA members, or even to Americans with whom you don't agree. You've managed to call folks on the other side of the Atlantic stupid because they have the sheer audacity to disagree with you.

Oh, yeah . . . I almost forgot.

You once posted, rhetorically speaking, "why should I join AMA". That's where I first provided the reference to Bovard's book, "Terrorism And Tyranny".

Your well-considered retort was to call me paranoid.

You charge into this august pack of lunatics, ridicule the various respondents with that sort of bile, tell outrageous lies (I advised four presidents . . . ) and expect everyone here to lend you credibility ?

Sure thing, bub.

Because of inflation, the price is now up to two cents a dozen for horseshit artists like you.

Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust

Most pylon racers are approaching and excedeeding 200mph. A good F1 or QM is doing around 220. Even the better warbirds in SWRA are near 200. These are much smaller planes.

Fred, I would say the obvious but I have no desire to sink to your level of perversity.

I have an excuse.

I never wanted to follow his rantings enough to spot a pattern, but it does seem you're quite correct.

Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust

Yes, but by the very event they (pylon and warbird racers) are in there are constraints created by the desired 'pattern' of flight. I have not seen that practiced with turbines. Jet guys (that I have seen, which is NOT all of them) seem to go fast to the left and then turn around and go fast to the right rather than a normal 'pattern'.

Actually, the faster jets are not particularly big. As an example, the BVM Bandit, one of the fastest, is about 20 pounds and a 65" span. BV has gone through the traps at over 240 with a Bandit. Not at an AMA club. :)

Keep in mind that the old rules (still in force) limit T/W to .9 :1, another unenforceable rule.

Drop dead, yes-man. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust

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JR, if the original document had been written exclusively for turbines in the first place, I wouldn't have brought it up. In it's original form, it was all inclusive and could easily been used to impose speed limits on recips too. Being clearly titled has nothing to do with future legal and subjective issues that could be imposed on all areas of R/C flight if left as it was. If history repeats itself, it probably will.

Once this is set in stone, there's no turning back. If an accident did occur and lawyers caught drift of a change that could be construed to have contributed to the accident (i.e., raising the speed limit), you may as well just open the check book.

"It takes someone that wants to misunderstand the questions to twist them that hard."

Hardly. I saw what appeared to be an open hole, addressed it and the wording was changed. At least it appeared that it was. Now that the document has disappeared from the DII and AMA sites, I have to wonder where it stands now?

Don't blame us for the legal system. We're looking at the future of the hobby too.

Greg

True! But they are also going in a preplanned circuit that is constant and predictable. Around the course! Also they don't usually get beyond good visual range. And you don't see this type of flying just everywhere. You seldom if ever see someone flying this type just for something different without at least some ongoing interest in it.

The jets OTOH are the new rage. Everyone wants one! So I think the chances of the local jerk getting his hands on one (for the thrill of it) are much greater than seeing the same guy show up with an F1. Plus I think the jet has the potential to exceed these speeds much farther and sooner than the IC engines will. Is that an acceptable risk? Who knows? But I do think that is the question DB and company are trying to answer.

Chuck

Just curious, Paul -- are you an active turbine flyer? A member of the JPO?

Cheers -- \__________Lyman Slack_________/ \______AMA6430 IMAA1564___/ \____Flying Gators R/C______/ \__Gainesville FL _________/ Visit my Web Site at:

I agree JR. Not being an AMA member, what's to stop me from ordering a jet today? Certainly not the AMA nor any club around here. And though it would be a pleasant change, I doubt any of the manufacturers would turn down my cash. And even if one did, someone else would grab it up. And as for a place to fly? How about that new industrial park? You know the one. All the streets are laid out but only one or two buildings were ever put up!

And lets say I have more money than brains (quite common these days)! And my R/C experience is limited! Shucks! I've flow the electric "jets" before at the local High School. And I've got all the computer sims. How much harder can a turbine be? Yee Ha! Let's open her up and see what this baby can do!

Makes you wonder! But I wonder how many will insist this could never happen?

Chuck

Which document? The input document is still on the AMA site. It is a .pdf file, #522, where it has been since it was used in Ontario, CA since the AMA Convention. It was used there for input in the turbine proposal seminars by Ilona Maine and Carl Maroney.

If you look at the new rules for turbines, which have put into abeyance, you will find that they also make the statement that all fixed wing aircraft shall be equipped with rudders. Of course, that is to set them aside from turbine rotary winged aircraft and turbine control line models. Taken in the context of the document and it's title, as with the speed limit, there is no question as to it's meaning. Taken by itself, the same misreading could occur.

JR

There you go. Back to your usual form, find one word you don't like, quote it entirely out of context, and your "case" is made.

I did NOT call _the president_ a brown shirt.

Your intimation that I did is just another bald-faced lie.

I referred to the "brown shirts running the country". Unnamed brown shirts, the sort who wield massive amounts of "authority" and run from the light of day.

What happened to your promise not to drag politics into the model airplane news group ?

More horseshit ? Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust

Ah Fred, I th> SNIP

About the only question unanswered by this quote is WHICH President you were indirectly slandering.

Now, do you insist on talking politics or can we discuss airplanes?

I get it now! You're saying the President DOESN'T run the country! Someone else in a brown shirt does!

So why are all your buddies blaming him for everything?

Chuck

Just so we're clear on all this, what country and reality are you in?

THANK YOU!

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from the >>DII and AMA sites, I have to wonder where it stands now?

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I was going from the original post that included these links;

I missed the 522 doc listing on the AMA site while looking through the list that night. My apologies.

I understand the reasoning behind the Turbine ruling especially in the fire context. I just hope that some lawyer doesn't look at this restriction and question why it doesn't all apply to all. To many years examining FAA reg's and docs combined with a vested interest in pylon racing led to my question about the wording. I hope I'm totally wrong.

Greg

And so the next round of "Guess My Persona" begins...