Need Recommendations for ARF RC Model Airplane



***"WHEN THE INSTRUCTOR KNOWS HOW TO TUNE THE ENGINE". My two-stroke engines seldom, if ever "die" in the air, unless I run out of fuel. Find an instructor worthy of the name and your two-strokes can run as well as your four-strokes.

***Any IC engine can stall, when improperly adjusted, two or four-stroke. Four-strokes can be more forgiving in this regard, but if the two-strokes are properly adjusted, fueled, propped and plugged, there is little difference once properly tuned. I flew pattern. Not once did I land without the prop turning over. Back then all we flew were piped two-strokes.

***Only someone without experience would think that a .52 two-stroke could be replaced by a .52 four-stroke. You'll need at least a .70, if not larger, four-stroke, to replace the .52 two-stroke powerwise. Now recalculate the difference in prices. Surprise!

***I said it was vastly superior, not perfect. Big difference.

***This is purely subjective. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

***Non ball bearing servos were "good enough" back when oilite bearings were cast into the servo case top. When they went to pure plastic they had to loosen the fit to the point where the average model could develop surface oscillation with the average installation. This is unacceptable. Buy the ball bearings up front and get a discount.

***I reiterate, FMS is garbage. Buy a decent simulator and you can eliminate most of the need for an instructor. Hell, I taught myself how to fly by reading lots and lots of full scale aviation material and then applying it to models. PCs did not exist back then (1969), much less computer flight simulators.

***If a club is around long enough, I promise you that it will go the way I have described. It will also evolve out of that into another pattern that may be worse or may be better. Having been flying model airplanes of one sort or another for over forty years, I've seen quite a lot of water pass under the bridge.
I organized and ran such a committee in my last NJ club. When one of the requirements for landing right to left was that you had to enter the landing from a right hand turn, half of the alleged instructors quit. I loved it. Now they would have to pay for their own crashes, instead of their student pilots. The club survived and prospered.

***Agreed.
***The reason that I am dead set against having too many questionable instructors is that it makes it impossible for the club to ensure that each student is given proper "ground school". Familiarization with the club rules (no flying over the pits) and stuff will not happen if all we have are a bunch of unorganized yo-yo's whose ego demands that "they" be the student's instructor. I have seen this so many times in my years of flying models that it almost causes a gag response at the mere thought of it.
We can actually shorten the amount of time that a student pilot needs to commit to spending in order to become a competent R/C flyer by organizing the material. Offering study guides and actually teaching them how to start their engines by making them start their engines with instruction and explanation. I'm not such a grouchy old ogre. I just like it when things are done thoroughly and efficiently. After all, I joined the club to fly my models, not to inflate my ego by making dozens of folks dependent upon my knowledge in order to fly.
Ed Cregger
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That's your opinion but I disagree when it comes to low speed running.

Did I say that? I said 46 compared to 52.

Not true for the sizes I mentioned.

You don't need a 70 4 stroke to replace a 46 2 stroke on most aircraft.

Not disputing that but there is a trend to accept all the marketing hype, people are buying 2.4Ghz systems because they think they are bullet proof and will fix all their problem (the ones they often attribute to their radio rather than their piloting skills).

You can quantify it by surveying the planes at your local club. For scale and warbird type stuff (including upper end scratch build projects) most are surviving quite happily with less than 8 channels.
I repsect that you are entitled to your opinion but the advice you've given is misleading to a beginner.

I don't see any value in BB servos for those learning to fly, no matter how quickly they think they'll advance to the types of aircraft where they may show some real benefit.

I'll have to disagree with you on that.

What worked for you is not what works for most people. You'll notice the majority of pilots always advise beginners to use an instructor, often stating that most self-taught pilots start with 30 second crashes.

How long is that in your experience?

If an instructor can't land from any direction, within reason, they shouldn't be instructing.
I know the type of pilot you're alluding to, we have some 'left turn only' pilots who we are trying to break out of the habit.

Hence we limit the number of instructors in the club and encourage them to seek the 'instructor' certification offered by our state and federal bodies (Australia).
Not everyone who can fly, no matter how good, is capable of teaching. I'm a club instructor but recognise my limitations to the point I only act as an assistant instructor for students who are progressing well but need stick time (eg. instructor is busy with many students).
I don't proclaim to be anything special when it comes to flying but I will be taking the state run instructor course later this year, if only to improve my own skills in both flying and/or teaching.

In our club the executive committee decides who is an instructor, the student is recommended an instructor to begin with but welcome to try others. We find that some students progress better with certain instructors, it's just a case of finding the right match.

Any instructor who forces themselves on students is going to be a problem.

Agreed, and our club is slowly working towards a more consistent curriculum for students. Luckily we have some very skilled full size pilots who are able to transition some of their training experiences into scale instruction.

We're there to fly and enjoy the hobby. Safety is important, ego's aren't.
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The Raven wrote: <long tales of woe and arguments about tuining IC engines, instructors, clubs and the like>
the answer is simple 1/. Go electric. 2/. Go 2.4Ghz 3/. Get a GOOD sim and practice like hell 4/. Find a place with either some sympathetic fliers, or just plain empty, get a slow stick, and fly it.
IF then you feel any need to migrate to IC engines, flying in a line with a safety officer telling you what for, then fine,
However you don't HAVE to START that way, and frankly its a bad way to start.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What, don't play well with others? Kicked out of a club? A little jaded are 'ya?
In any event I doubt it was the whine of electrics at Top Gun 2008 that attracted the OP to the hobby.
--
Mike



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Tinman wrote:

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
Kicked out of a club? A little jaded are

Nope. Never been kicked out. It was just a bit expensive to drive 15 miles and stand around and wait for a peg when I needed lots of stick time. An electric in the fields at the back + a sim got me that.
Plus when I broke it, I just walked back inside and fixed it.
Electrics may not be where you want to end up, but its a helluva simpler place to start..

I saw an EDF Hawk go straight up at 100mph plus last weekend.
Better than many a turbine can do.
And at considerably less money.
Now I am moving onto bigger stuff and can land properly, a grass strip and the club is more appealing: when I started 3 ft high crops and a cheap electric was a far better place and model to land ;-)

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What bigger stuff you looking at TNP? You thinking IC is in your future? mk
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MJKolodziej wrote:

Well probably still electric,as every time the model size I want goes up the electric prices come down ;-)
Biggest so far is 60" with 55" in scale stuff..but 1/4 scale is loomimg one day.
I know, its not HUGE, but its getting a shade beyond 'rough field flying'.
Probably do a 96" vintage thing soon..
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What's an EDF hawk?
Tom
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Tom wrote:

Electric Ducted Fan model of the BAE Hawk.

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wrote in message

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Those jet engines sure sound sexy. :-) I really like the slow flying four cycle engine powered biplanes. If I can afford I'm going to get a four cycle engine. During the late eighties I got as collateral for a loan a assembled P47. Don't remember the kit maker. I've got a box with the unused engine and parts. The plane just needs servos and I think it's ready to go but it's not a trainer by any stretch.
tom
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I just dug it all out. It's a Top Flight 1976 he 7 Thunderbot w/ a K&B .61 RC engine w/ muffler. It was built by the resident professional photographer at Johns Hopkins Hospital, Bob Meyers. But it's no trainer. Mayber after a year of two of flying trainers. Is there a market out there for thirty year old planes in mint condition? Bob was a careful guy with every thing he did.
tom
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You never can tell in the abstract.
To test the waters, you might list it on Ebay with a prudent reserve. Or take it to a local RC auction. Or show it to folks in a local club and see if you can find a buyer.
Or build up your skills until you think you can handle it. I wouldn't make it your second plane. Maybe third or fourth.
I would also recommend all new servos for it. And get someone with some warbird experience to do the first flight for you.
Check your CG carefully.
Make sure you understand wing loading, tip stalls, and the downwind illusion very well before trying to fly it yourself.
FWIW, I have a checklist for preflighting a new plane:
http://moleski.net/rc/cheklist.htm
                Marty
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I decided to keep the plane and engine. Electronic were never installed inn the plane.
Tom
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This is correct.
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What are IC engines? Definitely getting a SIM.
tom
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Internal Combustion
--
Jim in NC



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wrote

Thanks, I figured that one out after posting the question.
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Then I guess that you don't know how to properly tune a two stroke engine.
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