newbie in search of a flying site

trespassing aside, what are the limits on using open fields for r/c flight? for ecample if a county owned field is large enough and unobstructed...are there guidelines a newbie should be following?

Reply to
myold1130
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Well, permission to use the field itself aside, you should consider nearby houses, powerlines, highways, and, very important, nearby flying fields. You dont want to cause or receive radio interference with other fliers. Also, the field itself. Anyone else using it for horseback riding, hiking, kiteflying and so forth? Near as I can tell, horse riders own the planet (well, they think they do) and will ride straight thru a field people are flying in. Usually when you are about to land. Sorry, personal peeve showing there...

Reply to
Fubar of The HillPeople

sounds like the masterson station facility LMAC used to fly at....

of course in Kentucky, if it has four legs and eats grass, it does own all right of way.

Reply to
OlderThanDirt

Whereever you fly, you need specific (preferably written) permission from the landowner for the specific activity. Government land needs permission from the government entity that owns / controls it. Just because land is "public" you do not have permission to do whatever you want. Our club flying site is on Federal land and we have 4 levels of government to deal with. All are AMA "additional insured". Flying of model aircraft anywhere incurs responsibilities and liabilities.

Earle

Reply to
E

Is this true? I am not so sure it is.

No, but in general you have permission to catrry on any activity that is lawful, and not specifically banned by local laws. At least that is my understanding...

Goverment owned land is just another example of private land.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

And even fewer appreciate the fact that a radio responds to teh strongest signals, so in fact its very unlikley you will shoot down or be shot down by another transmitter on the same frequency who is a mile away.

Unlikely. If you can't see them flying, odds are you can't be shot down. The worst case being when you model is miles away from you and getting close to them.

Not sure what this means. No plane above a 12 oz leccy job should be flown near to people. never mind teh shootdown issue - pilot error, structural and/or avionics failure mean that 99.99% of our planes ned their licves in a major crash which is usually teh last of many for that aiframe, especially for newbies.

Lets be reaosnobale. Club flying means access to a decent place free of people on which to crash, and chaps around to make you feel worse when you do :-) It also gives access to other peopoles knowledge and experience, if they can be bothered, and/or know anything useful.

It makes teh chances of a shootdown far more likley, as there are lots of transmitters on lots of frequencies all of whaich are in the same place. This is far more likley to result in a shootdown than someone else a mile away.

Insurance is mnandatory in my opinion, as these models are dangerous full stop.

Where to fly however is a moot point IMHO. You need to balance the social and mutual assistnace angles against the advantages of flying miles away from anything that could get damaged by your fumbling efforts to Fly. Hand launched models can be flown in any available space with a sutiable surcae on which to land or belly flop. Bigger models needing rolling takeoffs need strips.

I just love flying on my friendly farmers fields. But I am restrcted to lighter smaller quieter planes. If I want to fly a 5 foot span gas model I need teh club site.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I don't agree with all your added points, and do not want to start a flame either. Two things in your suggestions are dead wrong though. Since the group is read by all levels of RC experience, I will try to correct them.

If it does not fly, it can be radio controlled just the same, like toy cars and boats. The LHS keeper will not ask what you need the transmitter for. The risk of loosing control over your plane is very present if you do not know who operates his gear on your channel. The plane will not listen to just the nearest channel, It will only operate on it's own channel, and be disturbed, not controlled, by an extremely strong nearby HF signal when it's own channel reception is too weak.

In clubs, some form of frequency control should be present, otherwise the club is not worthy to operate the field. That makes the club the safest place to operate your radio equipment and toy planes. The club also provides general insurance cover, and requires that you are insured yourself.

The original poster just stated that he might use a field large enough to fly from. not much else was said. In the country I live in, to operate a RC plane ouside club premises is prohibited by law, and not without reason! This does not include light electric park fliers since their flight speed, and hence inertia in flight, is very small. I believe the weight limit is

600 grams.
Reply to
Pé Reivers

I never said otherwise, but the key point is what else is on the spectrum you are using. It is techically illegal to fly on frequencies resevred for ground use, and in my experience the LHS WILL ask what you ntend to use the kit for, because they sell both, and are just as hgappy to sell an air set as a ground set, and have no axe to grind either way. Ground sets are also typically two or three channel: If you ask for a 4 channel its assumed to be a plane.

As far as interference goes, many many things casue interference, and teh most likley cause of a shoot down as opposed to malfunction, is another transmitter on teh same frequency at the same distance from your model as you are. Where is this most likley to happen? At a club. NOT out alone in a flying field somewehere. No one else IS near you under those circ.s

Indeed, if that control is rigidly adhered to. In practice mistakes happen. If there are no other transmitters nearby, no one CAN switch on their set on your frequency. In a club, you have to rely on the fact that if they don't have the peg or pin, they won't 'just switch on to check their model over' after assembling it.

That is certainly not the case in the UK, and not, I think in the USA.

600 grams is a pretty meaty park flyer. I have a plane of around 500 grams that flies at well over 50mph.

I am not trying to start a flame war either, just pointing out that

(i) In most countries it is not technically illegal to fly anything anywhere you like unless local byelaws are in effect. What operates is structly the owners tacit or explicit permission, and if publically owned for use by public, that includes model flying unless specifically prohibited. Nevertheless and notwithstanding...

(ii) The BMFA and the US MFA (?)insuarance allows for that, but does specifically state that models should not be flown recklessesly or negligently. In my book that means chucking a glo plane around a kids playing field or local park for sure. I simply would NOT do that.

On to the club/no club issues.

(iii) In practical terms, you are more likley to get a shootdown and indeed a serious accident involving personal injury and property damage at a club. Why?

(a) Lots of planes in teh sky, lots of people in one spot, near where the planes land and take off.

(b) Lots of transmitters on close or the same frequencies, in close physical proximity, at equal strengths, and lots of hasty nervous people doing the wrong thing.

(c) Lots of showing off by doing low high speed inverted passes etc right on front of the crowd.

(d) competition.

Does this mean I think clubs are a bad place. No. Not at all because:-

(iv) Clubs provide a good place to take off and land model planes, that are not normally available anywhere else.

(v) Clubs provide - or can provide - good advice and instruction for beginners.

(vi) Socially, its a place to go and meet like minded people. Well sometimes :-)

(vii) Clubs if well run will insist on sensible safety precautions, checked out models and discipline. This can be learnt alone, simply by a natural desire to fly rather than repair aeroplanes. But maybe clubs help.

(viii) Like motor racing, where the tracks have notices on them saying 'motor racing is dangerous: You watch at your own risk' clubs should also consist of people who understand and accept the danger. You don't race cars on the public road, nor should you fly planes on public parks covered in pedestrians, BUT you can and do race cars in wild out of the way places where no one is about - dune racing and rallying are all about this. And if you want to race a quad bike around a friends field, that's your own affair. Its the same with models. Models will always crash. Its best they do so where people are aware of them and expecting them, or where there are no people at all. That means wilderness or the club in my book. And the chances of them crashing at a club due to non pilot error are higher than the wilderness, simply because there is a more complex radio and plane environment. That is offest by the fact that the club *should* help reduce pilot error.

I am not arguing for or against one or the other: Simply pointing out the benefits and dangers of both. My club is not particularly helpful for newbies, so I learned to fly in a bit of wilderness. I may now use their site as the leaning towards larger planes makes my rough field sites less appropriate. And I can now fly the planes. What I don't like is this religious fanaticism that would like to make there only One True Way of learning, and flying. Safety is a very important issue, and many people fail to realise that the safety measures imposed by clubs are there beacuse, *in a club, they are needed badly and seriously*. They are not _so_ relevant in the wilderness. There safety may indeed consist more of never flying withot an active cellphone or someone within earshot who can get you and your severed finger to hospital. Never mind radio shootdowns.

The most dangerous thing that has happened to me flying solo is I fell in a ditch watching the model, not my feet. The model was completely destroyed of course, but since no one was withing 500 meters of me or the model, the only collateral damage was possibly the odd worm or two, and the birds got a free lunch :-)

OTOH I had a total radio failure at the club, and smacked into the side of my vehicle. Fortunately it was not only mine, but also an ancient grubby ex military canvas topped land rover, and took no harm. However, the fact that I missed several other much more expensive cars and several people by mere feet, was enough to make me not wish to fly there again until I could work out why that had happened. As it seems to me now, it was a little crash damage and some ignorance that caused that.

Flying rough field, If I have crash, I walk back to the house, check everything over, and when it comes out right, fly again. At the club, I have to pack up, come home, repair, return and fly - probably an hour or more. Not to mention the $10 or so it costs me in car costs.. The temptation to not waste the frequency slot and chuck up a model that is slightly suspect is quite large...

In the end I feel its personal preference and practical isues. If you live well away from urban areas, have easy access to wild empty spaces, and the sort of pioneering spirit assocciated with living in that sort of place, you are likley also to want to make your own mistakes, and not harm anyone in the doing of it. If that fiots you, get a simulator, use the internet, and fly and crash until you feel the need for a clkub to fly something inappropruate for your site.

OTOH if you live in a town or the suburbs, you are faced with a drive anyway if you want to fly, and teh last thing you should do is chuck up an untrimmed plane with no idea how to fly it in the local park full of children and dogs. You need to find a bit of wilderness, or indeed, a club site.

In the UK and USA your insurance covers you for either. The pros and cons are as fairly set out as I can make them.

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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I said: " No flame war " this guy sets out to rewrite the incomplete complete book on safety??

go get a life Natural

Reply to
Pé Reivers

So? the two are not incomatible?

Have you got a hangover or something?

Frankly, after the typical 'family christmas' this is light relief....

Lighten up Pe.

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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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