Re: Why do RCers dislike C/L flyers on the same site.

Our helicopters eventually noved eslwhere..for that reason. Personal friction. DSafety duicated that vhoppers and fixed wings shouldn't be in theair together.

Last time I saw CL was at the 1968 Nats.

I have a vivid memory of a wakefield straying into the combat circle. "Oooh ..Sitting duck" and the combat planes gave up chasing each other and shredded it in seconds.

I have never understood why anyone owning an R/C helicopter would want or need to fly at a model airplane flying field. And I have owned several R/C helis since 82 and own a brand new one today.

When you can fly virtually anywhere, without preparation of the grounds, why limit yourself to flying at a model airplane flying field? One of the attractions of model helis is the freedom that they provide. Just like their full size counterpart.

Ed Cregger

Easy to understand Ed,

Most experienced flyers enjoy the comraderie as much as the flying so it is natural for them to gravitate to a flying site.

Phil AMA609

In article , Sport Pilot wrote: | Gig wrote: | > Well , On our club.... we have CL fliers too. but they fly in a | > different area than us- just because of space and the way the | > field is set up...to be totally honest i"m not sure if they even | > have another name than us.. anyhow most of the guyswho fly CL also | > fly RC but NOT the other way round.. ...

| Some C/L flyers fly R/C but not the other way around? So when the C/L | flyers fly R/C they are not allowed to fly C/L? So if you are flying | C/L you are not considered an R/C guy? Bit of snobery there?

I think you misunderstood Gig. (I think it was Gig that was misunderstood ...)

He said nothing about `allowed'. He just said `fly'.

I got the impression that most of the C/L guys also fly R/C, but most of the R/C guys don't fly C/L. Which doesn't sound snobbish at all -- it just sounds like reality. R/C is more popular than C/L nowadays, is it not?

Personally, I haven't flown C/L since I was a kid. And while if somebody were to hand me a plane on a U-control I'd probably try it again (though it looks like it'll make you dizzy!), I don't really have any real desire to set up a plane and find a place to fly it -- if I want to fly, I'll pull out a R/C plane and fly that.

I learned long ago that my way is not the only way. You may very well be right, Phil.

Ed Cregger

Got the impression that most of the C/L guys also fly R/C, but most of the R/C guys don't fly C/L.

This doesn't make any sense! If you have set A and you have set B, the intersection or over lap is AB. So they are part of both groups. You cannot have some C/L flying R/C but no R/C flying C/L! It's an impossibility!

The only time my helo goes to the field is when I'm looking for help from another helo guy. I usually fly in my backyard or at the local school parking lot.

hehe, the "freedoms" of full size aren't really that loose. Yeah, you can set down a helicopter anywhere, but people will complain about the noise and wind. I would LOVE to fly a helicopter (full size) into my backyard or my sister's place, but I know neighbors would complain. I wouldn't care about my sister's neighbors. :)

| Got the impression that most of the C/L guys also fly R/C, but most | of the R/C guys don't fly C/L. | | This doesn't make any sense! If you have set A and you have set B, the | intersection or over lap is AB. So they are part of both groups. You | cannot have some C/L flying R/C but no R/C flying C/L! It's an | impossibility!

Is not.

Here's an example.

We have a (theoretical) club of 100 people.

85 people fly R/C only. 5 people fly C/L only. 10 people fly both R/C and C/L.

Most C/L fliers (15 total) also fly R/C (10 people fly both.) Only 10 R/C fliers (out of 85 total) also fly C/L.

I see no impossiblity here.

And I never said `no R/C flying C/L'.

You're forgetting that the denominators are different. Because the group that flies C/L is so much smaller than the group that flies R/C, the proportion of C/L folks who fly R/C (the set intersection) is a much higher fraction of the total flying C/L than the total flying R/C.

I don't either. I am one.

But I don't want their engine noise masking my engine noise, when I'm flying R/C. That's all.

If the field is large enough so that this problem doesn't exist, then I'm all for them being there.

However, being a control line flyer at such a field would make me nervous when the local "Five O'clock Charlie" gets his Tx in his hands and his model airborne.

Ed Cregger

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They keep their breakfast down by looking at the model and not the moving background. That is an old trick that works for most people. Did for me.

Ed Cregger

As others have pointed out, it can be a question of space. It is reall

very similar to having 3D planes and fast electric gliders in the ai at the same time.

Also, how busy (and/or large) your site is makes a big difference. I there are just a few of you, it is usually no problem to give a chun of air and ground space to a C/L plane for a few minutes at a time

-- perttim

----------------------------------------------------------------------- perttime's Profile:

this thread:

This is flat snobbish bias. Somehow if you fly C/L and R/C you are not an R/C person! Doesn't matter that it is a small group. If you have

65 that fly R/C only and 10 people who fly both then you have 75 R/Cer's. For some reason they are not counting those people as R/Cer's.

The impossiblity is that you are trying to say the C/Ler's who fly R/C are C/Ler's not R/Cer's. Seems to me they are both. Therefore tha number of R/Cers who fly C/L is the same as C/Lers who fly R/C, 10. Your situation is not the same as here. Most C/L's here do not fly R/C nor have any inclination to do so, same the other way around. In fact they had a circle on our field, but would not keep it up, wanted the county to do extra work, wanted the R/C club to manage that work. Not a reflection on the C/L group but the one at the head of the C/L club, who (I guess) thought he should get his way because he is famous in C/L circles. But most of the R/Cer's never heard of him.

Chuckling at Sport Pilots comments... the manufacturers sure count us as R/Cer's! Hummmmm.... so my pulse proportional 049 outweighs my CL carrier planes, my half dozen combat planes, my stunters, my sport CL models.... I think I can safely say that I am a CL flyer that enjoys playing with RC, FF and Rockets too... but I am playing when I fly them. I go to the CL part of the NATs most years and fly at half a dozen CL contests within a days drive. Bob Furr

PS I like to think of all of us as modelers... kinda like the way you view guys wrestling and guys playing basketball both as athletes. As modelers we are all having fun at the sport from the guy flying a peanut scale rubber model all the way to the guy here who built and flew a half scale Cub (with welded steel tubing).

How does a C/L engine noise mask a R/C engine noise any more than another R/C engine?

Other R/C engines can mask your own engine noise and they are constantly moving about the field. A control line model, if close enough isn't going to vary in volume as much as other R/C models from one moment to another.

Of course, the key to how much masking occurs is dependent upon the distance of the U/C flying circle from the R/C pilot stations. At our field in NJ, the C/L circle was way too close to the R/C pilot stations and there was nowhere else to put them. Other fields may not have the same problem.

Ed Cregger

| This is flat snobbish bias. Somehow if you fly C/L and R/C you are not | an R/C person! Doesn't matter that it is a small group. If you have | 65 that fly R/C only and 10 people who fly both then you have 75 | R/Cer's. For some reason they are not counting those people as R/Cer's.

I'm not sure this is even worth trying to explain at this point, but I'll go ahead and give it one more try ...

The original statement was this :

anyhow most of the guyswho fly CL also fly RC but NOT the other way round..

and this is not `snobbish bias'. It's simple math, and I already gave a sutiable example, and Tim explained it as well.

When you say `they', who are you referring to?

Who said that if you fly C/L and R/C that you're not an R/C person? I don't recall seeing anybody say that in this thread.

Ultimately, the R/C guys and C/L guys and F/F guys and the static modelers are all ... modelers. I guess that's the common bond there

-- we're all modelers, and there's probably a good deal of overlap between the various groups.

If you want another example of where `most members of group A are also members of group B, but most members of group B are not members of group A', consider the groups of `Republicans' and `members of the NRA'. Most NRA members are probably Republicans, but most Republicans are not NRA members.

Or most AMA members are modelers (it should be close to all, but I imagine there's a few exceptions), but most modelers are not AMA members (perhaps only because the AMA is a US organization, but modelers are found world wide.)

Judging from the discussion in this thread, I don't see much of a bias against C/L at all. There are some concerns with flying C/L and R/C in the same space, but those are mostly practical and safety related issues and not snobbery. (Personally, I thought the thread looked like it was an attempt at trolling at first, and maybe it was, but if so, it didn't really end up as a very effective troll and instead ended up being a somewhat interesting and on-topic discussion.)

Having flown some control line prior to R/C coming along I always dreamed of what it would be to fly a model untethered but controlled. Once into R/C with rather primative equipment the experience of controlled (at least most of the time) flight made me wonder what the attraction was for Control Line if the individual had a choice. There must be an answer as it still has a respectable following. Then I wonder how many of us OFs could make over 5 laps without being literally screwed into the ground. :-) I have enough trouble with balance with a glider soaring high overhead. OFLPs (Old Fart Leaning Posts) have been quite popular and have been installed at a number of clubs in the area as a "pilot aid".

Now a new era opens - Electric Control line where space is limited and noise is an issue.

Red S.