2D CAD

Not very.
Interesting... According to www.think3.com they are hiring to cover 11


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the
I think there's some confusion. You're saying Think3 has 11 open positions (and they do according to their website). But what is being debated is positions/usage of software, a software developer hiring (think3) isn't the same as a firm hiring looking for someone with experience with a particular software package. So, while think3 is hiring, not a single one of their positions requires experience with their products, nor any specific product (a couple do require some CAD/CAM experience but they don't state any particular programs). What's more important to people of this newsgroup is what software is being used. In order to maximize current and future employement oppurtonities, you need to make sure you're experienced with the software that firms are requiring knowledge of. In this respect think3 is lacking (according to the job openings listed on Monster.com).
So back to the debate.... What software packages are most widely used? While job postings may not be a totally accurate way of determining, it is very good at giving you a general idea of what's being used. (a compiling of job postings over a longer period of time - say 2 to 3 years - would give you more accurate figures).
BTW, back to the dwf/dxf issue, think3 states "A key feature of thinkdesign is its ability to import and leverage legacy 2D drawings (dwg, dxf, IGES)". So here's yet another software package that understands the importance of dwg/dxf compatibility. Poster CW does not seem to grasp this and while in his particular field/area that may be somewhat true, it's certainly nowhere near true for the vast majority of fields/areas.
HTH,
Michael (LS)
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In another post, you said that I had claimed that the DWG format was obsolete. do a Google and find that post where I said that. I'll save you some time. You won't find it. You claim that I said no one uses Autocrap. I never said that. The only thing I did say was in reference to another poster that claimed that any software that would not read or write in DWG or DXF was useless. That is not even close. In the world of the box builders (architectural types), and medium to low end software, DWG and DXF is quite common though those with the ability to do there own work (increasingly rare) do not need it. In the engineering field, where higher end software is typically used, IGES, SAT and STEP are much preferred over DWG. The statistics obtained from job postings are not a very good indicator of what is out there. CAD is just a tool, like any other. When advertising a job for a draftsman, they are primarily looking for a tool operator. Since Autocad is widely taught in public school, it is an obvious choice. The higher end occupations, the engineering fields, where higher end programs are generally used, other qualifications are far more important that the operation of a single tool. Many, if not most, of these jobs are not advertised and when they are, they rarely state that they have to be proficient in a particular tool, rather they focus much more on their engineering ability. As you seem to have a bit of a problem with reading comprehension, I suggest that you re read this post a few times. It might even be to your advantage to have some else read it and explain it to you.
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OK, I'll respond to this:

obsolete. I did? Hmmmm, mind pointing out where I said that because I never did.

time. You won't find it. Well, I never said you said that, so obviously you're mistaken on this point.

Once again, you're mistaken. I never said that you said that. Please feel free to point out where I claimed that you said nobody uses AutoCad. I _did/do_ debate your statement that dwg/dxf isn't widely used (notice I didn't mention AutoCad, maybe you're interpreting dwg/dxf to = AutoCad? Could that be the misunderstanding?)

I never said you did.

You're right, it might not be useless, but it is VERY limiting in the some fields/areas.

quite
I'd imagine it's VERY rare that a firm could stay in business without the ability to share files with other firms/subs/consultants. They may be able to do their work with non-standard software, but (in all but the smallest of projects) they still need to share files with subs/consultants/etc. Hell, I would have love'd to stick with AutoCad R14 and never pay for another "upgrade" but in my business I need the ability to easily share files without _any_ sort of translation issues. Asking my clients to jump through hoops so that I could do work for them obviously wasn't a valid option.

I'll not contest this point because my direct experience is limited to the architectural world. I will say though that even large architectural projects are typically done with a dwg/dxf compatible software package. Other fields/areas I'm not familiar with enough to determine what is typically used.

what
I disagree. There's obviously a lot of ways to find employment and job postings is just one of those. But, as one of the most widely used methods it does have some valitity.

Yep
For a Draftsman that is true, but where not limiting this discussion to just one job position (or are we when it's convient?)

Yep, it's also THE industry standard (I'm not saying it deserves to be, but it is) for the architectural field. For other fields/areas there certainly are other programs that would be better suited for that type of work. But once again you're limiting this arguement to just Drafters (?). Because I disagree that someone would require a prospective hire to have experience with AutoCad unless they were running AutoCad or a program that is VERY similiar. If they're just looking for someone with basic CAD/CAM skills they'd say that. The reason someone asks for experience with a particular program is because they are running that program or something that is simulair enough that that experience would shorten the learning curve.

Higher end? Hmmmm, what's meant by this? Higher end as in more pay? I make a very good living and I'm just a lowly architectural drafter. I don't think "higher end" means "high paying" so what does it mean?

tool. True, there's many qualifications that are more important than just software knowledge. But we're obviously comparing job postings that listed a software package by name. Obviously there's gonna be some job openings that don't list a particular program, and in these circumstances knowledge of the most widely used packages would be a plus (though not necessarily a requirement).

That's not limited to just "high end" jobs or "engineering" jobs. That's true with the vast majority of all job positions (with the possible exception being minimum wage jobs). However, when job openings are high, and potential employees low, it's even more likely that there will be more jobs posted as companies struggle to fill available positions.

particular
That's true because software proficiency is less important. In that case than ANY program will do as long as it's compatible with others (within the firm, consultants, subs, etc.).

suggest
I do? Hmmmm, I guess in YOUR mind I do, but that may not be reality. ;- >
Seriously though, what field/area are you in and what software is the "standard"? Since I'm in the architectural field I know it, but my knowledge of other fields isn't as complete. I'll have to ask around to see what other industries are using. My brother-in-law is in the semi-conductor/battery field but he doesn't actually use any software, I'll have to ask him what the D&D department uses. I also have a cousin who designs rocket engines, I wonder what he uses (I haven't talked to him in ~10 years) I'd be interested in knowing what he's using. My mother works for Lockheed Martin, next time I talk to her I'll ask what they're using down there.
So....back to the reason for all this.... The contention that dwg/dxf compatibility is/isn't important. Result summary at this point: Architectural Field - VERY Important Other Fields - Unknown
Anyone reading this that works in (or at least is very familiar with) another field/area? I'd love to hear who the big software players are in the various industries.
Michael (LS)
PS - BTW, I just noticed this thread is crossposted to numerous groups and I apologize for not rectifying that (at this point it's probably too late to move the discussion to just one group without potentionally "losing" someone).
As a side note, I noticed that 2 of the 3 groups are AutoCad groups. On the alt.cad group, what software packages are the most prevalent? Is it fairly even or are the bulk of the posters there using a handful of programs? Just curious.
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Well, then, I guess it can't to DXF or DWG, then. Guess it needs some work.
-- Bill DeShawn snipped-for-privacy@nospamsterling.net http://my.sterling.net~bdeshawn

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Why?

work.
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work.
Your world is viewed down a long pipe Bill.
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