how much for an older Autocad license 14, 12...?

Hi, I'm an french architect and i 'm looking to buy an older version of Autocad in order to work on it in France. Do you know where to buy?
Thanks to everyone, Alex
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I'm afraid you are poking an ant hill, so no way. Get a pirated version instead.
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Better alternative would be to do it legal and use one of the many good cad programs on the market.
wrote...

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cad
Yes, but it leaves the requested older versions of AutoCad out of the question. And that was the question about.
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For many people, theft is not an option. Apparently, you aren't one of them. The question was where to acquire legal software. My answer was much more useful than telling him to steal it.
wrote...

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them.
I have two legally licenced seats. I just ment that ie. R12 is 'abandonware'. It does not exist to Autodesk any more (support, upgrading etc.). So there is no 'legal' way to get a licence. What alternatives that leaves you if you buy a second hand copy than become a 'criminal'?
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A second hand copy is legal. A pirate copy is not.
wrote...

more
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CW wrote:

What else should "a second hand copy" be than a pirate copy?
Autodesk *never* sells their software to any end user but only a licence to use it. This licence might be valid for an unlimited period of time and it might even be good for commercial use but it is always *non-transferrable*, i.e. if Autodesk doesn't agree to a transfer of said licence to an end user who wasn't part of the initial licence purchase agreement, then there is absolutely no legal way to buy a legal second hand copy. The reason is simple: No end user who has purchased a licence legally is entitled to re-sell his licence or transfer it to any other person. And Autodesk simply refuses to agree to any end user-to-end user licence transfers. So you can't obtain a licence from another end user legally because the end user who "sells" or "transfers" his licence to you simply is not legally entitled to do so.
The question would rather be if the EULA is applicable in all countries in which Autodesk markets their products. I'm not an expert in French copyright law but can say that under the German copyright law the EULA, which is presented upon software installation, is not applicable as you don't have a chance to read and sign it upon conclusion of the licence purchase agreement. Moreover, to become legally binding, the EULA would have to be in the German language, so it's bad luck for Autodesk if they sell you a licence for a software which is available only in English, e.g. Autodesk Viz 4.
Kind regards, Olaf
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Autodesk sells software. They even say so on thee website. I realize that there are a lot of people on herre that thinks Autodesk makes the laws but they don't. A contract that is forced on yo after the sale is invalid. Once you buy it, it is yours to use, give away, sell or throwaway. The only thing that the seller retains a right to is copyright. If you don't agree with me, that just makes you wrong. I haven't the time to debate this (there is really nothing to debate) as things are getting really busy here lately. I suggest you pull your head out. Bye.

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I realize that

makes the laws but

is invalid. Once

throwaway.
Wrong again. :-)
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Yes, you are but we'll let it slide. :)

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CW wrote:

In that respect, if you do not mind me saying, you are wrong. Legally purchasing a software licence does not give you the right to do with that software whatever you deem fit. Your rights as a licencee are user rights, not proprietor rights. I am quite certain that you are aware of the difference. The EULA might be non-applicable as it is forced upon users _ex post_. This does not mean, however, that all other national and international copyright laws and agreements are non-applicable either only because you do not explicitly sign them upon conclusion of licence purchase.

You are wrong again. Autodesk - among most other software makers - also retain the right to assemble, disassemble, reverse compile the software code. The only items of which one becomes a rightful owner are the media on which the software is stored, usually the CD-ROM, and the documentation. That is what Autodesk sells to users in terms of proprietorship. Apart from that you only get a licence to use their software.

It seems more likely to me that you have run out of valid arguments to back up your statements.

I have never been very impressed with people who utter insults rather than delivering valid arguments in a matter-of-fact style.
Kind regards, Olaf
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Short said: you buy the software but you never 'own' it. Wouldn't this give us the right to request refund for software that we don't use anymore?
Jan

_ex
purchase.
on
from
back
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JP wrote:

That isn't correct: You don't buy software, you buy a licence to use a piece of code. This piece of code is the intellectual property of the software company who sold you the licence. What you buy - in terms of "this is mine" - is a CD-ROM and a handbook in a box.

You don't have to stop using the software unless your licence expires, e.g. student versions are usually limited to a period of two years. What keeps you from using a full commerical software licence until hell freezes over? Who forces you to update? And if you update, your original software licence usually becomes part of the new licence, so they mustn't be separated anyway.
Kind regards, Olaf
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Finally, someone that can understand the EULA.

wrong. Legally

to do with that

are user rights,

aware of the

forced upon users _ex

national and

non-applicable either only

licence purchase.......
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Can you prove this? In the U.S., has an individual or company ever won a judgement against Autodesk to allow for said individual or company to resell an Autodesk license? Please provide URL's to your evidence.
You are correct, a licensee may "use, give away, sell or throwaway", where you are wrong it that a licensee cannot do it legally.
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cadmaster wrote:

Or, to be even more precise: Any licencee is free to do with their licence whatever they please: Stop using it, destroy it, donate it to a charity organisation or dispose of it in any way they deem fit. Whatever end users decide to do with their licence, there will always be the flaw that no other end user can become a *legitimate* licencee of that very licence as end user licences are non-transferable without Autodesk's explicit consent. And Autodesk simply refuses to honour licence transfers from one end user to another, i.e., fully commercial licences do not expire but simply stay with the original licencee (= end user) regardless to whom that end user hands over the software CD-ROMs, handbooks, licence documents, purchase contract etc. Consequently, an end user, who acquires an Autodesk software package from another end user, only obtains proprietorship of the "hardware" (CD-ROMs, handbooks etc.) but never of the licence to use that very software package on their computer system. In a nutshell: End users who acquire a fully commerical licence from another end user become software pirats in the very moment they enter the licence code and start using the application on their own computer systems. So, the point at which using the software becomes illegal is not at the transfer from one end user to another (actually, that transfer is irrelevant as it does not exist in legal terms). "Software piracy" starts at the point at which end users, who have obtained the licence from another end user, start using an unlicenced software on their computer.
If anyone has evidence of successful legal proceedings / court decisions according to which Autodesk was forced to honour an end user-to-end user licence transfer, please post such evidence (or the links to such evidence) to this newsgroup. On a footnote, it would also be interesting to learn how long such proceeedings took, i.e., how quickly (or rather "how slowly") such a decision - if it exists - was made.
I simply reckon it a useless "popcorn discussion" to argue that in theory the point of view described above is wrong if there are no facts to prove that end users have successfully convinced (or forced) Autodesk to honour a private licence transfer.
And at this point, I shall rest my case. :-)
Kind regards, Olaf
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other
user
with
software
another
the
start
evidence)
how
such
a
This isn't exactly what you're asking for (and I don't think it exists) but maybe it'll help: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23073.html
Michael (LS)
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Michael (LS) wrote:

Great! Any volunteers to go into litigation with Autodesk based on that decision? ;-)
Kind regards, Olaf
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In 1994 I received/transfered AutoCAD 12 from my former emplorer with Autodesk's and the local distributor's blessing and have received several upgrades ever since. What do you say to that! All quite legal. As usual I go through a long procedure to prove ownership every time I upgrade but it is quite legal.
CGH

other
user
with
software
another
the
start
evidence)
how
such
a
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