how much for an older Autocad license 14, 12...?

I'm afraid you are poking an ant hill, so no way. Get a pirated version instead.

Yes, but it leaves the requested older versions of AutoCad out of the question. And that was the question about.

For many people, theft is not an option. Apparently, you aren't one of them. The question was where to acquire legal software. My answer was much more useful than telling him to steal it.

I have two legally licenced seats. I just ment that ie. R12 is 'abandonware'. It does not exist to Autodesk any more (support, upgrading etc.). So there is no 'legal' way to get a licence. What alternatives that leaves you if you buy a second hand copy than become a 'criminal'?

What else should "a second hand copy" be than a pirate copy?

Autodesk *never* sells their software to any end user but only a licence to use it. This licence might be valid for an unlimited period of time and it might even be good for commercial use but it is always *non-transferrable*, i.e. if Autodesk doesn't agree to a transfer of said licence to an end user who wasn't part of the initial licence purchase agreement, then there is absolutely no legal way to buy a legal second hand copy. The reason is simple: No end user who has purchased a licence legally is entitled to re-sell his licence or transfer it to any other person. And Autodesk simply refuses to agree to any end user-to-end user licence transfers. So you can't obtain a licence from another end user legally because the end user who "sells" or "transfers" his licence to you simply is not legally entitled to do so.

The question would rather be if the EULA is applicable in all countries in which Autodesk markets their products. I'm not an expert in French copyright law but can say that under the German copyright law the EULA, which is presented upon software installation, is not applicable as you don't have a chance to read and sign it upon conclusion of the licence purchase agreement. Moreover, to become legally binding, the EULA would have to be in the German language, so it's bad luck for Autodesk if they sell you a licence for a software which is available only in English, e.g. Autodesk Viz

Kind regards, Olaf

Use "reply to" address for e-mail, please.

oh look, a can of worms! ..... *trying* really hard not to step in it......... ;-)

"CW" wrote

I realize that

makes the laws but

is invalid. Once

throwaway.

Wrong again. :-)

Oh no....here we go again! :-)

In that respect, if you do not mind me saying, you are wrong. Legally purchasing a software licence does not give you the right to do with that software whatever you deem fit. Your rights as a licencee are user rights, not proprietor rights. I am quite certain that you are aware of the difference. The EULA might be non-applicable as it is forced upon users _ex post_. This does not mean, however, that all other national and international copyright laws and agreements are non-applicable either only because you do not explicitly sign them upon conclusion of licence purchase.

You are wrong again. Autodesk - among most other software makers - also retain the right to assemble, disassemble, reverse compile the software code. The only items of which one becomes a rightful owner are the media on which the software is stored, usually the CD-ROM, and the documentation. That is what Autodesk sells to users in terms of proprietorship. Apart from that you only get a licence to use their software.

It seems more likely to me that you have run out of valid arguments to back up your statements.

I have never been very impressed with people who utter insults rather than delivering valid arguments in a matter-of-fact style.

Kind regards, Olaf

Use "reply to" address for e-mail, please.

Hey, thank you guys for the answers ! ! ! But don't fight for me please . I called today Autodesk in Paris France and this is what they told me :

Autodesk don't salle older versions of AutoCAD !

If you want to buy an license from some else ( particular , friend, etc.) you must have the permission of Autodesk.

I asked if it's easy to haven't, and the answer is That only 10% of the demands are approved ! ! !..

So , I'm in big s. ! I just need an cheap license in order to modelise in

3D. I don't no what to do ? The Architectural Desktop of Autodesk is 6400 ? ! ! !

Have you looked at Intellicad as a possible choice for you? Try

alt.cad.intellicad

I had the same idea. I observed some ebay auctions and found some quite acceptable items. So my hint is: try ebay, look for a R14 version.

Do you have ebay in France? Otherwise, German sellers often send europeanwide.

So far, Roland R.

The problem is not to get a CD-ROM with the software. The problem is to obtain a valid licence for commercial use. Using pirate copies - and without acknowledgement from Autodesk a transfer of licences from end user to end user is void, thus the end user who purchased a licence from another end user is considered a software pirat - could come much dearer than purchasing an official licence for Autocad 2002 or 2004. You might - after risking long and costly legal proceedings with a most unpredictable court decision - be allowed to obtain a licence from another end user. But by the time you finally pushed it home, even Autocad 2004 will have been obsolete for a couple of years.

Kind regards, Olaf

Use "reply to" address for e-mail, please.

If you need the software for 3D work I suggest you buy AutoCAD LT plus 3D tools from drcauto.

Alternatively you could try to obtain a dongled copy of AutoCAD from someone who never got around to upgrading it. You would be in a grey area as to legality as the licence could not be legally transferred to you. But if you have the software and the hardware lock it is not "pirate", and as you can't upgrade it nor get support Autodesk would be unlikely to take any notice of you. If you take this route the price you pay should be in the ten of Euros.. As the old software has no real resale value.

See if IntelliCAD might give what you require. try:

It is an AutoCAD clone, originally based an AutoCAD R14.

G