Lube/ grease for Champion hand crank?

I have a Champion blower that's in nice shape externally, the gears seem to be in fine shape, but the bearings, especially on the fan-shaft are
pretty beat (+/- 1/8" of slop).
Because of that it's pretty noisy.
If someone has pointers about:
- re-doing the bearings
- proper lube for this beast
- quieting it down
I'm all ears.
The only model-identifying mark on the casting is the number 78 on the opening side of the blower housing, the gearbox side says Champion blah blah.
--

Carl West
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
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An eighth? Wow! :)

I imagine so!

IIRC, they're bronze bushings, journal bearings, easy to replace, if things aren't too rusted up. You'll need about 5-10 thousandths, maybe a little more,* clearance around the shaft for lubrication.
* My Machinery's Handbook is packed away upstairs.
If they happen to be ball bearings, most bearing houses can match them up even if all you take them are the inner and outer races, if they're that worn. Otherwise just take the bearings in and get a matching pair.

Any good light oil. I used 30W motor oil on my old Champ for years. It's next owner has done the same and it's still going, and going, and going.
Don't use heavy gear lube. You'll cuss it all winter! DAMHIKT!

New bushings and oil should handle that if the gear teeth aren't badly worn. If they're straight-cut spur gears, they'll be noisy no matter what you do. If they're helical cut or herringbone, they'll run quieter. I'm no expert on blowers, BTW.

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When John Husvar put fingers to keys it was 2/2/08 10:16 AM...

Yeah, pretty raggedy.

Cool. I'll go all the way in this next time. (see below)
Eastern Bearings is about a five minute walk away. They've helped me before.

Out forge is heated (somewhat) so I'm not real worried about that part of it.
I've heard of mixing oil and 'white grease' for similar looking gear boxes on planers.

The crank gear is straight cut, the fan gear is helical, the intermediate shaft has, surprisingly enough, one of each!
OK, gotta make a screwdriver big enough to do the job 'cause I don't _have_ one. (the slots in the inner screws are roughly an eighth by an inch)
--

Carl West
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
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When Carl West put fingers to keys it was 1/31/08 5:32 PM...

pictures and video at: http://c-24-218-189-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net/Sloppy.html
So I made a screwdriver to get the remaining screws out. No joy. The gearbox is cast in one piece.
I'm beginning to believe that the bearings are pressed in and now I'm looking for tips on getting them out. The one on the fan-side seems to be stainless, the other... not so.
For ha-ha's I took a pipe wrench to the stainless one, but no surprise, nothing happened. I've tapped around with a light hammer and chisel with no apparent luck. I'm wary of applying lots of force to cast iron parts 'cause I'm not too good at fixing them.
So, any tips on this one?
--

Carl West
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
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Make sure your shaft isn't upset at the end. If so, some time with a fine file or emery cloth will clean it up.
Look into the box with a flashlight and maybe a mirror. See if the shaft has any snap rings, setscrewed collars, or other means of locating it with reference to the main gear. Check also on the blind end of the shaft. If there are collars, snap rings, etc. remove them and then try to tap the shaft out gently from that end with a brass hammer and drift or even a deadblow hammer, one you don't care for very much. :)
If there are no locating devices, try using a ball joint separator between the collars and case or make a appropriately sized fork with shallow angle wedges, one for each side of the collar. Use the same as a ball joint separator.
If you proceed carefully, you most likely won't damage the case or collar. Failing that, lots of penetrant and a small press might do it.
Go slow, but don't baby it either. (Now there's a weasel-word statement if there ever was one!:)
We used those methods on shafts upwards of 4" on old crane gearboxes. Fortunately usually all but the first pinions were installed in a split gearbox! :)
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When John Husvar put fingers to keys it was 2/17/08 9:21 AM...
<much good info to be acted upon>

There was a study done where they had subjects pressing a button that was pressure sensitive. They started by telling them to press "Hard" or "soft" or "medium" (or some such) and not surprisingly, the results for "hard" were all over the place between the different people.
When they said things like "Hard but not too hard" and "Between very light and light" the variation between people became _lots_ less.
It may sound like weasel-words, but it does help.
--

Carl West
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
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A friend once broke his hip. The surgeon told him to apply "enough pressure to crush a caterpillar, but not a beetle" when he first walked on the repair.
--
Skipweasel
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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When John Husvar put fingers to keys it was 2/17/08 9:21 AM...

Nothing was as it appeared.
After making a pair of (even if I say so myself) quite clever double-taper wedges, and getting the one cap out, it turns out it _was_ threaded. The other one came out with a pipe wrench (and no marks) after being heated with a propane torch.
Underneath? Ball bearings. The outer race is integral with the casting, the inner cones were loose and are somewhat galled. Not having a lathe at hand, I didn't consider trying to clean up the galling. I greased them well and put it back together as snugly as would run. It's still pretty noisy, but it'll do for now.
Thinking about it some more, I'm toying with the idea of chucking the shaft in the drill press and taking a stone to the galled area. I can't make it much worse. hmmm... maybe the diamond wheel in the dremel... hmmm...
--

Carl West
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Or a file, if you have one of the appropriate contour for the affected area. If you hold it by the "wrong" end so that if it catches it flies away from you it beats getting a tang jammed into you somewhere. If push comes to shove, I have an old Hendey lathe you're welcome to use, it's just a bit of a pain to get at at the moment. There's a mill as well, but you'd have to help me figure out the wiring on the phase converter to get it running... I'm roughly an hour SSW of you. --Glenn Lyford
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In article

Rotary or static phase convertor?
Rotaries are easy. Get a 3ph motor of somewhat higher HP than the mill's motor(s). Connect your line wires to T1 and T3 and your load wires to each. Bring all three "T" leads out to a capacitor bank. Connect capacitors between T1 and T2 and T3 to T2. Draw your 3ph from T1,T2,T3 off the end of the cap bank and connect it to your mill's motor(s). Since you have the 3ph motor wired on single phase, you'll need some means of starting it rotating.
I've seen anything from small 1ph motor to start the convertor motor turning to doing it with a pull rope.
There are charts online for the capacitor values for various requirements. Or, you can just get the mess running and read voltages and currents on all three output lines under load and experiment until you get balanced current.
Up to the horsepower rating of the convertor motor, the more you load it up, the better it will make fake 3ph. You'll lose a little horsepower, but usually not enough to hurt you for most jobs.
Static convertors usually just have single phase input and 3ph output. Their horsepower capabilities are limited, but a variable frequency drive will work quite well as a static phase convertor for small horsepower loads, say up to about 5 hp.
Make sure to check that the motors on the convertor and the mill are connected for the voltage you'll be using. Most likely 230, no? If you had 480 you'd probably already have 3ph. :)
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I tried making a rotary, but I suspect I either got some bad relays or the motor I got off eBay is actually fried, but in any case never got it to work. I ended up just buying a static. Now I just need to find time to wire it up. I find this usually goes faster with someone breathing down my neck about it. :) I'll probably wire in a motor to make it into a rotary once I get it running, but I'm trying to start simple. The other issue is where the mill is located, there's a pole that makes it hard to get at the disconnect and mag starter so I can see which phases are used to run the mag starter (so that I don't try to run the relays off the manufactured phase).
Just a time and laziness issue, really. :) --Glenn Lyford
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I on the other hand got a rotary and built a large control box that took the basic 220 3P and almost triple that through step-up transformers and phase leg bucking transformers(which drops the step-up voltage).
I put on a frequency meter, voltage meter with a switch per phase, two levels of contactors. Two levels so I can spin 220 for something and not power the transformers. Or isolate the transformers. Each phase has a phase (all linked) circuit breakers.
I think the transformers provide the initial load to help stabilize the rotary when enabled.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com /
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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"it's easy when you know how" -my cowboy buddy that's accomplished much! (despite the bureaucrats trying to undo everything;)
"nothing's hard to do, just some things take longer than others" -same guy :)
Alvin in AZ
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Yep! :)
I also like: Cheap, fast, good; choose any two. (innumerable manufacturers, repairmen, craftsmen, etc.)
One of mine: If you've got the time to wait and the money to spend, I can make you anything you want any way you want it.
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"takes me longer when I get in a hurry" -Alvin
Cool (stolen) thread, any more? :)
Alvin in AZ
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hay its travis did you figure out what oil to run?
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When snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com put fingers to keys it was 3/23/08 9:28 PM...

I put grease in the bearings and 10w-30 in with the gears.
Seems to work.
--

Carl West
http://prospecthillforge.com : The Blacksmithing Classroom
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