I'm going to temper some large 1 1/2" excavator pins and need quenching oil any ideas? Thanks Eric
16 years ago
I'm going to temper some large 1 1/2" excavator pins and need quenching oil any ideas? Thanks Eric
I bought the shittiest oil I could buy, nasty stuff that anyone with 1/2 a brain wouldn't use on anything with moving parts. Chock full of carbon 100% non-synthetic.
The only other suggestion is to go to the local mechanic and get some sump oil, this stuff is worse than the stuff I bought, but for heat treating it's the bomb. Just strain it through a piece of cloth before you use it.
Btw both flame up so be careful.
Hey guys, Eric, you can use any oil you can get, be that animal, vegetable or mineral. I use old sump oil, as I have lots of it (I change my own oils on bikes/ute & tractor). Be warned, used sump oil has some nasties in it, so try not to breath the fumes. Really that goes for all oils. you could buy new cheap motor oil if you liked. I have read of people using automatic transmission fluid, but I don't know how well it works. I have a friend who uses vegetable oil, the cheapest he could get at the supermarket.
As to Animal, well I have used whale oil, at the local community college (called TAFE) which used to teach blacksmithing, they had it left over from the 50's. Also Wayne Goddard, the knife maker, used a mixture which contained bacon fat - if I remember correctly, I could look it up, if you need me too, it was in his book on the $50 knife shop.
What it comes down to is, use what you have or can afford. Just try not to use something that is really thick, high viscosity, I'd go thinner if I were you. I remember reading somewhere that a ligher oil works better, particularly when you have such thick material to quench.
Please let us know what you use and how it works.
There are several good quench oils on the market. I use vet grade mineral oil, as it doesn't have all those nasty metallic soaps in it like automotive petro products. Mineral oil is available at the local feed & seed, and usually runs about ten bucks a gallon. It's about a 20 weight oil. The main thing is to have enough volume of oil to suck up the heat of the part without boiling. You will get a flash fire as you immerse the part, but it usually goes right out once the part is totally immersed, Wear gloves, and eye protection from the splatter. Hold the part under until you stop seeing obvious convective roiling on the surface, then let it cool in still air.
While mentioning basic precautions, aside from adequate volume, try to make sure that 1: The oil quench container (metal, please) cannot get knocked over (or at least will require a lot of effort and intent to knock over). 2: you have a metal lid, preferably a tight lid, that will fit it. The lid is a fire control device - if, despite whatever, the oil catches fire and stays lit, drop the part (or pull it out if it's too long to fit all the way in) and slap on the lid. Lack of oxygen quickly puts out the fire. It also keeps random crap out of the oil when you are not using it. Just Say: oil soaked dead mouse is not all that attractive. Hitting a pocket of water on the bottom of the oil can get unpleasant. Lid will prevent both.
I have recently used vegetable oil (as mentioned earlier) to harden a prick punch. It worked great. I have also used steam hammer oil but, I like the idea of using vegetable oil because I won't feel as concerned if it gets spilled OR, if/when it does spoil, I can dump it out without worrying about ruining groundwater tables. Also, if it can help keep our farmers employed, then all the better. It's cheap, available, and environmentally friendly. What more could you ask for?
Whatever you do, make sure the oil has NO moisture in it. If in doubt, heat it to at least 230 degrees F or so to boil out any water. Then let it cool back down to your target temp before using it. If you do encounter water it the oil (oil floats on top of the water), it can turn explosively into steam and spatter you and everything with hot oil. People get away without explosions from time to time, but don't take the chance.
Even this dumb-Arizonian uses real quenching oil. ;)
It ain't that expensive and if you are serious about what you're heat treating, it gives better results than the other stuff because it was formulated to do so.
Alvin in AZ (knifemaking as a hobby)
So, does using "official" quench oil come with instructions? Like what temperature to heat the oil to for a certain steel? Do you heat your oil at all Alvin?
matthew who woke up with ratm in his head and dreaming of shotguns.....I should probably stay inside today :)
Used to heat it at first, then quit heating it.
With my thin stuff it makes no difference and now that my stuff has been hardness tested I know that I'm getting exactly what I'm "supposed to be" getting according to all the graphs and tables. :)
Including the cold treatment's added hardness.
Seems like ATF I was using early on needed to be heated to work?
Either way the "real;)" quenching oil -does a better job- and doesn't catch fire or smoke as much. Industrial sources talk about "wearing the oil out" and "real;)" quenching oil has stuff added to it to make it work better and last longer both.
After using the "real;)thing" I won't go back to ATF is all I can tell you guys for sure.
If it's off their first album then... BTDT! :)
Go outside and shoot something ...anything. ;)
Daisy BB gun -with no sights- if that's all you got. ;)
Just bought a 12ga 1897 that's a take-down-model I don't like the take-down part of it. :/
It's also got a couple mechanical problems too. :/ It was "on consignment" at the shop so not sure how this is going to play-out yet. :/
Like to sell it back and wait for a non-take-down-one, even if it's in worse shape.
Alvin in AZ
I figure I'm going to "splurge" and by some quenching oil too. My thinking is, you have something designed for it at a reasonable price.
Not only that, with your results. It gives me a sort of benchmark to work with. Well, I think it does anyway.
BTW, first album :)
It sucks, I can't do that anymore. I live in the burbs...I so need to get a bb gun. :) I killed the red rider after years of abuse. Took the pellet rifle apart when I was 13 or so, can't afford to shoot a co2 pistol. :( I've been thinking of buying a tunned up BenjaminSheridan. Trouble is, costs as much as good .22 and scope. Can't go and shoot a .22 whenever I want. Need something for small game and plinking...decent air gun seems the best way.
I'd suggest looking into the price of it locally and compare it with having to warm-up some store-brand ATF. ;)
I bought 2 gallons separately from Brownell's and later wanted 2 more. (got a stainless steel CokaCola can from the scrap yard;)
What Brownell's sold me was extra good stuff and all, but from McMasterCarr I got 5 gallons cheaper than 2 more gallons from Brownell's. :/ Ended up using 2+1/2 gallons anyway so it paid off good.
If shippping wasn't so expensive nowdays I could ship you my left overs. I'm not ever gonna need more unless I spill what I got or something dumb like that.
So my GF drags me to the movies to watch The Matrix which was cool as anything (accepting that it-is a movie;) and the credits roll and no, it ain't some dumb crap to run you out and clear the theater. :)
It's "Wake Up!" by RAtM. :)
Time to buy two. Don't look at 'em! ;) They look like crap. :/ But they "do shoot and feel" like the "good old" ones. :)
The front sight can be cut off carefully with the tip of a thin knife blade and won't expose the BB storage chamber. The trick is to leave the forward-most portion of the plastic-bushing there so when looking down the barrel, the barrel looks round at the end.
I should take a picture, huh?
I used the corner of my grinder to grind away the two spot welds holding each rear sight, pried them loose, then colored the bare metal spot with a black Sharpie. :)
Shoot 'em, don't look at 'em. ;)
Yeah and what's cool about the RedRider is you have to re-mount that sucker everytime you shoot it. Better practice that way.
Make a point of not "looking" at the barrel just "see" the barrel.
Watch for the BB and where it hits... those two are all that counts.
Me and Donald shooting cigarette butts was one of the funnest things I ever did with any gun. :)
Pick one out up close... and both of you try to shoot it as fast as you can until it's so far out of range you both decide to give up on it. One of you picks a new one up close by shooting at it, hitting it or not "he's the one;)".
So I've never shot a shotgun in my life and go dove hunting with another buddy (that hadn't been into BB guns) and his dad (they had Model 12's) and another old neighbor that's got a Winchester Model21(!).
I out shot them all, with my brother's SweetSixteen. I didn't see what the big deal was, until we got back together and started counting the birds and the shots taken.
My brother had a fit I borrowed his shotgun. ;) But he was glad to hear I outshot everybody with his gun. :)
Everybody was shooting full choke except the Model 21 had two different chokes not sure what they were anymore.
My brother gave me that 16 since he's not having any kids.
Alvin in AZ
Two letters and one word: CB Caps. :)
In my case, it's just as a bad an option as a .22l, besides those things are a little pricey. :)
Thanks for the advice on the oil. :)
I'm convinced, that sorta backs up what I've read in other sources too.
P.S. pictures would be sweet, how ya going to scan them though ;P
True, but they're virtually silent out of a .22 rifle. I understand about being where it's illegal, and worse, un-PC to discharge any firearm for any reason short of self-life-defense. You might get a fine even for that. :)
Like this... ;)Removed rear sight using the corner of a bench grinder... there are two extra-small-diameter spot welds holding it on. Looking straight into the barrel... (how you like the paper plate surounding it?;)
Anyway, that's the whole muzzel but only the top 1/4 of the muzzel is what you need to see (the rest is for reference). The plastic sight was cut-off, but still filling the steel cut-out.Ugly as anything looking down on the muzzel from the top huh? :/
You can see the facets the thin knife blade left. (Mike Swaim's 3318, clip/sharp blade;)
But looking at it from behind you can't see it... as long as the barrel cut-out is still filled with black plastic like picture #2.
I used a black felt tip to blacken where the rear sight was removed. I swear, I know how stinkin sloppy that sounds! :/ But the new RedRider BB gun looks like crap! :/ Feels and shoots like the old ones tho. :) Don't friggin be setting around looking at the gun... just shoot the sucker. ;)
Alvin in AZ ps- the BB's won't fall out of that butt-ugly-hole in picture #3 :)
All this talk of BB guns with no sights....
Are you familiar with the Daisy "Quick Kill" training system? It was also sold as the "Quick Skill" system for civilian use.
It was a training system designed to teach instinctive shooting to military, also got sold as a kit to civvies. Korea era IIRC.
Daisy bb gun with no sights from the factory, and a set of targets and instructions.
It was said that many of the people that completed the training, could hit a asprin tablet thrown in the air.
Do a Google search on quick kill or quick skill along with Daisy, if interested.
Cheers Trevor Jones
Heck no. :)
Got it from Brister's shotgun book in the 70's (library).
I forgot where I learned it from. Here lately read where guys were going on and on about Brister's book, bought one and realized I'd read it before back in the 70's. :) It's a good one alright.
But always shot BB guns that way anyhow just-used-to look over/around the sights before reading Brister's "Shotgunning the Art and Science". :)
Having to take the BB gun down and remount it everytime, just adds to the practice.
Alvin in AZ ps- doggonit I mis-spelled Red Ryder :) pps- oh well, it's permantly etched into hematite now ;)
Cool Alvin, thanks for the pics....I think I oughta go out and buy one now. ;) getting frustrated with me yet. :)
Hey, did you get my email about the forge pics? Do you need me send them so you can see?
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