Apropos of JR's very excellent recent posts, what would be a good but economical choice for a face mill/insert type? For a non-too particular hack machinist, non-production? I'm interested in the mill itself, as well as insert type.
I assume that face mills would all use screw-type inserts. I'm thinking round inserts for general facing would be most economical, as you have 2*pi*r of edge available. But square inserts allow you to chamfer really fast, as well as face, and offer 4 edges/points.
Are there any particular styles of inserts that are most common/economical? For me, it would be just insert cost, as production is not an issue yet. Life might be a factor, but I'll proly break'em before they wear out.
I've seen alum. alloy face mills with adjustable inserts, for like $800 each. Just dreaming...
I found the 3" to be a little big. If you were to keep around just one size, what would you choose? Two sizes?
Here is Kriss Hogg (Mr. P.V.) showing what he really does best... Lie
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"Kristofer Hogg holds degrees in physics, chemistry, and nutrition, is a Registered Dietitian, and has an extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes. He did PhD research in Enzyme Kinetics, and developed the HoloBarre Fitness/Rehab/Stretching System, which should be available through physical therapists, personal fitness trainers, and dance schools by the end of 2001. You can email him questions/comments on health/nutrition/fitness as well as other inquiries to: snipped-for-privacy@erols.com"
Extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes... what a crock of shit. Kriss Hogg has never worked as a machinist, has no CADCAM background, never went to trade school for machining, etc.
Kriss Hogg has spent years hiding behind an alias attacking others far more skilled than he is at machining and with CADCAM.
Here is Kriss Hogg (Mr. P.V.) showing what he really does best... Lie
formatting link
"Kristofer Hogg holds degrees in physics, chemistry, and nutrition, is a Registered Dietitian, and has an extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes. He did PhD research in Enzyme Kinetics, and developed the HoloBarre Fitness/Rehab/Stretching System, which should be available through physical therapists, personal fitness trainers, and dance schools by the end of 2001. You can email him questions/comments on health/nutrition/fitness as well as other inquiries to: snipped-for-privacy@erols.com"
Extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes... what a crock of shit. Kriss Hogg has never worked as a machinist, has no CADCAM background, never went to trade school for machining, etc.
Kriss Hogg has spent years hiding behind an alias attacking others far more skilled than he is at machining and with CADCAM.
PV, this is an easy one to fit the ticket. Try out this link
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to Iscar's Chammill. One body can use round, Square, Octogon or 45 Degree Lead inserts. They can be purchased in a kit with samples of each insert. Talk to your local Iscar Rep about selecting the proper grade and chipbreaker for what make sense for you on a day in and day out type of routine. Before you know it you will have a varoety of inserts that ALL fit into 1 body.
Round inserts work great as you said the amount of cutting edge surface is huge and very economical. I think you will get 8 "timed" indexes as the insert uses the same configuration on the back for all shapes. So just as you would get 8 cutting edges from the Octogon insert I believe you will for the round ones also.
Obviously you use the Square Shouldered 90 Degree Lead insert when you need to achieve the square, but these are the least economical.
Where you can really make some time is the Octogon and 45 Degree Lead insert. Due to the 45 degree lead angle you create a thinner chip thus resulting in about 30% less Horsepower consumption. So if you are just slabbing off material and can use the 45 degree or Octogon shape you take your feedrates that much (30% higher) and reduce the cycletime .
If the cutter body offers insert that have a wiper on them, try them out. But if you are attempting to get a smoother finish DO NOT Slow the feedrate DOWN. In fact keeping it cruising right along. The flat (wiper) built into the insert edge should be slightly more than the other inserts total Inch Per Rev feedrate. So when the Wiper makes contact with the part it smooths out the tool marks from the corner radius of the previous inserts all at one time. So even though you are cruising along at an aggressive feedrate, you achieve a nice finish too. In fact if you slow it down it will probably chatter due to the tool pressure the wiper is creating when rubbing instead of cutting.
For versatility in Facemilling, The Iscar ChamMill is the choice for me. If you have more specific needs, there are several nice cutters on the market today.
One of the last ones I put into play for aluminum that needed to be smooth used PCD diamond tipped inserts, 1 diamond tipped wiper and a Shower Screw that uses through the spindle coolant down through the cutter body and thru the end of the mounting screw that has holes in it. So the centrifugal force of the spinning cutter body forced the coolant from under the cutter body blowing chips away from the cut thus eliminating the chance of a chip getting re-cut and marring the surface.
Coolant on Facemills in general is not a good practice due to not being able to flood the entire cutter due to it's size. So the inserts are constantly going through Thermal Shock resulting in fracturing, resulting in bad experiences with Facemilling.
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facemilling at it's best. Check out the brush burning up as the heat hits it. Watch the heat disipate from the pile of chips at the end of the video.
I've run these in the vintage of Fadal that PV has described. The 2" diameter cutter body was about right for that class of horse power and rigidity and we always rigged up the coolant line to run air on this tool. Worked great.
The newer HT 50 taper Fadal is another animal but he doesn't have one of those.
Here is Kriss Hogg (Mr. P.V.) showing what he really does best... Lie
formatting link
"Kristofer Hogg holds degrees in physics, chemistry, and nutrition, is a Registered Dietitian, and has an extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes. He did PhD research in Enzyme Kinetics, and developed the HoloBarre Fitness/Rehab/Stretching System, which should be available through physical therapists, personal fitness trainers, and dance schools by the end of 2001. You can email him questions/comments on health/nutrition/fitness as well as other inquiries to: snipped-for-privacy@erols.com"
Extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes... what a crock of shit. Kriss Hogg has never worked as a machinist, has no CADCAM background, never went to trade school for machining, etc.
Kriss Hogg has spent years hiding behind an alias attacking others far more skilled than he is at machining and with CADCAM.
PV, I have a 3" face mill that uses 3/8 IC parallelogram inserts. This type of insert will let you machine 90 square corners. The inserts come in up sharp ground configuration for alum. and negative rake inserts for steels etc. I also have an 1 1/2" dia on a 3/4 shank for smaller work. I like the fact that I can get the positive rake alum inserts in .005 radius, which I've used if I have a thin wall.
Shell mills or face mills used to be $100 an inch of dia. but times have changed.
Here is Kriss Hogg (Mr. P.V.) showing what he really does best... Lie
formatting link
"Kristofer Hogg holds degrees in physics, chemistry, and nutrition, is a Registered Dietitian, and has an extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes. He did PhD research in Enzyme Kinetics, and developed the HoloBarre Fitness/Rehab/Stretching System, which should be available through physical therapists, personal fitness trainers, and dance schools by the end of 2001. You can email him questions/comments on health/nutrition/fitness as well as other inquiries to: snipped-for-privacy@erols.com"
Extensive background in machining and manufacturing processes... what a crock of shit. Kriss Hogg has never worked as a machinist, has no CADCAM background, never went to trade school for machining, etc.
Kriss Hogg has spent years hiding behind an alias attacking others far more skilled than he is at machining and with CADCAM.
Might as well as Joe788 is too dumb and too stupid (same for Half Nutz Putz / 3t3d / Pete Logghe) to figure out the reason why I switch to posting with another posting name after doing extensive posting with jon_banquer over a short period of time.
F45KT HELIOCTO 45° face mills, using octagonal and round inserts. ===================================================================
Ours is a 3" one (a little less at the bottom of the 45 degree insert area). With the polished inserts for aluminum it plows through aluminum, brass, and plastic stock like crazy and leaves a good finish. With the inserts for steel installed, it machines most everything else, (303, 304, 316, 17-4 stainless, Kovar, 1018, etc.). The inserts are octagonal so you get 8 edges. You can also get round inserts if you want, we have some but rarely use them. And this is on low horsepower Fadals and Haas.
We have some face mills that are better in aluminum, and some Tangmill face mills that are better in steel, but you only get to use 2-4 insert edges, so they probably wouldn't be as economical. Unless you bought an extra left hand turning Tangmill facemill so you could use the other
4 sides of the Tangmill inserts. Which we have, but that probably wouldn't be a costsaving feature you'd be interested in.
Tell Iscar that BottleBob referred you, so I can get a kickback. Just kidding, I get nothing, not even a free insert. LOL
Well last August it was because you had to use multiple personalities because just one was too busy to reply to all the posts. Why DO you hide behind all those multiple names?
How many machines do you own? Can you shaw ANY examples of YOUR work? ANY?
Can you show ANY pictures of valve train parts YOU DESIGNED? What, NOTHING?
Might as well as Joe788 is too dumb and too stupid (same for Half Nutz Putz / 3t3d / Pete Logghe) to figure out the reason why I switch to posting with another posting name after doing extensive posting with jon_banquer over a short period of time.
I like to use the Mitsubishi ASX and Iscar Heliocto. We machine 99.9% aluminum, and I think PV is looking for more of an all-around solution.
I have a pile of 2 inch Mitsubishi BXD face mills that I use for rough facing and contouring (it's an aluminum specific cutter). They are fantastic, but not cheap. About $400 for the body, and $20/pc for the inserts.
Quite frankly though, I'd be more interested to know why Jon insists on posting under multiple fake names in multiple places.
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