The ole suction cup chinup bar.... "Warning yourself" out of liability?

Awl --
Remember the old heavy chrome suction cup chinup bar? That destroyed every doorway it was ever installed in?
Anyone recall the original mfr??
I think that chinup bar, along with the bullworker, defined fitness, at that time. Before infomercial stupidness took over the planet.
Inyway, the point here is, that chinup bar was *destined* to fall. In fact, a patent attorney I knew at the time, his kid fractured his skull on one of those chinup bars.
Now, here's the Q:
Can you "warn yourself" out of liability?? ie, basically say that no guarantee can be made for the safety of this item, use at your own risk??
Does the fact that the end user installs this item automatically distribute blame, or even shield the mfr himself from (most) claims?
I am sort of deducing that this MUST be the case, as Modell's STILL sells a suction cup chinup bar -- as of a year or so ago, at any rate -- which quite surprised me.
I figured either the company was off-shore and untouchable, or simply no claims can be made against a slipping chinup bar, unless it just broke in half. Also, Modell's is NOT untouchable, so I think the issue is more of being insulated because of a clear "use at your own risk" policy. But then, in litigious Merka, is ANYTHING *really* "use at your own risk"??
Cars are largely immune, iiuc -- barring failing brakes, stuck accelerators, exploding gas tanks, etc. If you crash, it's generally on you. Is the same true of a slipping suction cup chinup bar?
--
EA



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risk??
No, but you can structure your warranty and a hold-harmless agreement such that _anything_ the buyer does that is counter to your express instructions automatically places total blame for failure on the user. It allows you to nit-pick the end user to death on "compliance". And one thing you can do is instruct the user to NOT USE the device unless they are CERTAIN they can do it with complete safety. That clause alone causes them to be in violation of your instructions if they get hurt.
Some attorneys say they're essential, and some say they're not worth the paper they're thrown away on.
Only a lawsuit challenging it (your state may vary) would prove/disprove its worth.
LLoyd
LLoyd
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wrote:

By saying that the item may injure a person you are admitting that the product may be defective and are opening yourself for a lawsuit.
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Not if it is normal and expected that a particular device may have dangerous properties.
It's the same thing with power tools. A circular saw injury doesn't necessarily imply that the saw was defective (although they keep adding "features" trying to avoid the chance of it).
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

Which may make them pert near unusable.
Have you seen the RAS's at HD, used to cut lumber in-house?? Goodgawd, it's a wonder that blade can actually touch the wood!! I imagine it will soon have a breathalyzer on it, as well...... and mebbe a 20 Q "mood/focus analyzer"..... and a quick-stick glucose meter.....
--
EA



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> LLoyd
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Existential Angst wrote:

Since the most probable point of failure is in the installation, which is the part that the user/owner has complete control over, you can probably write a warning that the installer must verify that the device will hold the intended load, and that the security of the installation should be checked on a specific periodic basis. If you were to build a porch swing for somebody, but they hung it from the plaster ceiling instead of the rafters, are you liable?
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With modern entitlement-minded juries, yes; unless you make the user agree PRIOR to the sale as to their personal responsibility. Simply selling it with an enclosed paper saying it's their job is not enough.
LLoyd
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As a side note, one of the biggest potential legal disasters for any Live Steam group is giving FREE public rides. We have bulletin boards that people can read while they stand in line warning them not to wave their hands, shift their balance, or take pictures while the train is moving. (We are a 7 1/2" gauge track, so we're about 1/8 actual size, and people ride on top of the cars) When people board the train, the dispatcher once again warns them 'no turning, no waving, no taking pictures...' And, of course, people turn, wave, and take pictures. One group I was hauling had to finally be asked to walk back to the station because they refused to stop taking pictures... In a discussion about potential liability for an accident we were told that warning statements are not enough... If we were taken to court the plaintiff's lawyer would argue that the warning statement was meaningless to someone not well versed in the live steam hobby and a thorough knowledge of possible consequences. The possible damage from such a frivilous lawsuit might well kill any public rides across the country... Many clubs have already gone 'private'... Chet
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

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Frivalous lawsuits have become a way of life in North America. Pour hot coffee on ypourself and blame someone else. Climb a fence with barbed wire on the top to get into an electrical substation and it is abviously the fault of the station owner. There is no such thing as common sense anymore.
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Why are you so obsessed with not letting them take a picture? Doe the tracks go through the center of Cheyenne Mountain?
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When I was a kid, I had a chinup bar that threaded out. Had a rubber foot on each end, which the expander bar promptly cut through. Destroyed the door way rather nicely, though.
--
Christopher A. Young
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Existential Angst wrote:

No but they still make one like it that is sold via infomercial...
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Steve W.
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Never saw this 'mercial, and I watch them all.... There's stuff that *hooks* to the top of the jamb, stuff that screws in, but I've never seen a 'mercial for the suction cup ditty. And even THAT started to appear with screw-in clamps that supported the suction cups.
The one I saw at Modell's, tho, did NOT have screw-in support clamps, which surprised me.
--
EA


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Existential Angst wrote:

The one I saw has a bar that has cups that go on one side of the jamb and a crossbar with cups on the opposite side. Apply weight to it and it sort of locks in I guess. Looks like a really easy way to rip out the sheet rock and header the way most places are currently built.
--
Steve W.
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says...

Do you have a link to a picture of which ones you are talking about? I didn't see one on the Modell web site.
-- DT
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I read a little about 'merchantability law' - if that's the correct term - a while back. It essentially says something like 'putting it up for sale implies a warranty of usefulness and function.'
Anyway, that's the type of law to check on first, to find an answer to your question.
Doug

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DougVL wrote:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX makes no warranty, express or implied, regarding the
fitness for either use or merchantability of anything provided under the terms of this
contract.
--
John R. Carroll



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