Big screen TV's negate energy savings from CFLs

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:18:17 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."


Not just more pricey, but they was before they further improved on FPD efficiency as well. FPDs (LCD variety) are far more efficient than a CRT of the same form factor (size).
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says...

That calculation is only valid if the replacements are the same size. It wasn't long ago that 15" displays were the norm. Now it's at least 19", perhaps a couple of 21" in that environment. ...or should be if they're doing a real economic analysis, rather than a research- to-prove-conclusion analysis. If dual displays saved one minute a day, the second monitor would have a payback of a year or two. I could save a hell of a lot more than that, not to mention a few trees. Power consumption (or anything else) can't be analyzed in a vacuum.
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krw wrote:

Of course, many other considerations would have to go into the analysis. But it stood on the power savings alone.
We were kidding among ourselves that they (the Boeing facilities people) would probably bite if we showed them that the reduced depth of a flat panel would allow closer spacing of desks and a resulting higher 'engineers per square foot' figure. We all suspected that they had modeled offices after the one in 'Brazil'.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@hovnanian.com says...

Sure, power savings can be seen on the bottom line. Engineer savings can't, so aren't considered. :-( Someone over on alt.folklore.computers has told the story about justifying terminals for engineers in the '70s. His analysis showed that the cost of the computer was lower than the telephone on their desk, but somehow the telephone was seen as a necessity, not a "luxury" like computer access. Engineers had to queue in "terminal rooms" for access. BTW, the company in question was IBM (I was one of the first in mainframe development with a terminal on my desk, in '78ish).

In '01 they moved our group to a renovated building (then moved us back after layoffs after spending $2.5M on rented space, but that's another story). They were going to move us from 8'x12' (higher levels had 12'x12') offices to 6'x8' Dilbertvilles, until they saw my three monitors and two systems (plus a laptop). The space- cadets then decided that engineers would get 8'x8' cubes (still smallish, but it worked) and techs the 6x8s. After adding "breakout rooms" and more conference rooms for discussion/reviews, that were previously done in offices, they saved zero space over the previous floor plan.
In short, don't give the space-cadets any ideas. They have enough bad ones on their own.
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You must be talking about "graphics" terminals. Text terminals were very common on IBM desks in 72-73. Places like AAS Bethesda had hundreds of 2260s and later 3277-78s.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

No, 327x. I did have a 3277GA though. Terminals were common for programmers, but engineers "didn't need them". I ran into this attitude in management as late as '84. One first line wouldn't let me order PCs for his engineers because "his engineers aren't secretaries".
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We had the same problem in FE but we had parts ;-) Most of our PCs were in wooden cases (cases have serial numbers) until we embarassed them so bad they gave us hand me down sales PCs.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

We had a couple of hundred 3277GAs and some thing like a hundred 5100s built out of parts. The 3277GAs were legit, but the 5100s came in the back door. Someone got ahold of the BOM and ordered 100+ copies of everything on it and had a summer coop put them all together. The mucky mucks found out and change the system so one had to have a serial number to order the case. We already had 100 systems. ;-)

Sounds familiar. ;-) In the '80s I ordered new stuff when it became available (I had a network of "ears"). I took the best of it and the older stuff got handed down the line, eventually to secretaries. They couldn't "justify" new equipment but we had the right lie^h^h^hbusiness case. Everyone was happy. ;-)
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Once I found "trade" forum we had lots of stuff. That was a "free for all" flea market for swapping IBM stuff around.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

Every time I went there they wanted an IPT for the stuff. If I had the blue-money for an IPT I wouldn't need to trade for it. Bean counters are so narrow-minded.
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You just had to have something to "trade" besides blue money, that was the point. We were in the hardware business. I could usually come up with something someone would want. I sorted the "Used Part Returns" and I tested anything that looked promising. If someone threw a "FRU bucket" of several parts, usually only one was bad, if there was a bad part at all. This stuff was usually just bulk shipped to a recycler anyway for pennies a pound. I figured I was saving the company money by "recycling" it myself.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

That was the problem with being in development; no spare parts. WHen I was working for CCP I the early '80s, I did have access to a pile of 64K and then 256K DRAMs though. Unfortunately, while I had more than enough to fill any PC I could lay my hands on, I wasn't the keeper of the keys so couldn't even use them as barter either. :-(
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krw wrote:

The mid '80s' is about when PCs started to appear in our engineering departments. They started off being sequestered in 'computing cubicles' until management discovered that everyone had to leave their desks to get any work done.
One of the 'executive potential' candidates took a look at what a few of the early adopters of PC technology were doing and complained that our using PCs "wasn't fair" to those who didn't know how to use them. That signaled the beginning of the end of the engineering department to me.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@hovnanian.com says...

I'm surprised they noticed, or cared. We had to near-mutiny to get the point across. Local management wasn't hard to convince but division and corporate had their head stuck in the sand, or somewhere.

Wow! I'm glad our management didn't look around and see what everyone was doing with them. The first adopters were the executives themselves. They did *nothing* with them but look important. Well, the head cheese didn't have one. He bragged about never having had the need for computer. Of course, that was just before the boat nearly sank (what iceberg?).
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krw wrote:

[snip]
At about this time, my dad worked as an engineering manager for a defense contractor. He never had any use for a PC, figuring that these were better for CAD, analysis and other similar tasks.
However, his management had other ideas. While his engineers had trouble requisitioning anything, the IT folks were instructed to install PCs on every manager's desk (for appearance purposes). When his showed up, he took one look at it and called one of his staff to come and get the damned thing. They (happily) complied. A week or so later, the IT folks stopped by to check the system out and.....it was not on his desk. Fortunately, they had a piss poor asset tracking system, so they figured the original had never been delivered and they simply got him another one.
This went on for about half a dozen or so PCs until someone upstairs caught on and told him to quit relocating them. OTOH, staff was quite happy.
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alt.engineering.electrical, snipped-for-privacy@hovnanian.com says...

I work in the defense industry now (contractor). Nothing's changed.
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On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:46:03 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

He's an idiot.
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krw wrote:

Before they sent my applications to India, I had 2, 4 desk cubicles to myself and my hardware One was actually a 3 desk cube due to the unfortunate location of a building column. I kept telling a friend of mine in facilities that I was going to submit a request to have the column moved. I needed the space.
;-)
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