Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:14:56 -0500, repatch Gave us:

Personally, I feel it to be OK, but as far as specs go (and they are many times set forth by the manufacturers then adopted by standards organizations) I think it is still nix.

The crimp connectors wet very well. Most fresh wire wets very well. The connector, after crimping, is very tight if done correctly. Adding solder would heat it up, causing its inside diameter to expand a bit, but it shouldn't change the integrity of the crimp.

If you are having trouble getting a crimp connector on tight, either the connector is not matched to the wire size, or the wrong crimp die was used, or the connector is cheap chinese crap, and only LOOKS like a real connector.

: Gave us: : : >

: >"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : >news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... : >: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : >

: >: Gave us: : >: : >: >In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : >: >than a written rule? : >: >

: >: >Pop : >: : >: Absolutely not. : >: : >: Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice : >for any : >: compression type connection. : >

: >You obviously don't know what "interpretation" means w/r to rules : >& regs. : : You obviously do not know the difference between rules and : regulations which people have the ability to "interpret" and rules and : regulations which are set in stone, and not open to "interpretation". : : ANY inspector that thinks that it is HIS or HER duly "authorized" : right to bend, meld or "interpret" the rules is an idiot that doesn't : know how to ASK his superior for an answer when he or she gets stuck : on an issue. ALL circumstances in the industry are covered, and NONE : of them are mutable through individual interpretation and ANY : inspector that thinks they are is not now, nor never was a real : inspector. : : > Interpretation by different authorized" people are : >exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : >question : : Actually, that should read: : : "stupidity by different promoted past their level of competency twits : are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : question..." : : > when it's answered from the rules & regs. If you really : >know mil-specs, then you know that. : : "If you really know mil specs" then you'd know that that is not true : in any way shape or form. NOTHING is left open to interpretation, by : inspectors or otherwise.

Bingo! That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. You stepped in it that time big time. Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. Good luck.

On 1 Feb 2006 12:56:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Gave us:

Soldering Aluminum is not easy to start with, and requires special solders and usually higher temperatures.

On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Gave us:

Their appearance varies from maker to maker. Most have an insulating sleeve on them, but they can be bought without it as well.

Screw terminals that have a removable screw can have "ring lugs" used on them. Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. The type with the forked, open front section. Clamp lugs can use bare wire, or a "pin lug" for assemblies that cannot have wire shards around.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:20:42 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

I feel sorry for you and the rest of Usenet with the way your sad news client handles quoting.

It is probably a good news client that your retarded ass screwed up with stupid characters to place in front of quoted material that are unrecognized by the rest of the REAL world.

What else are you going to do today that is totally retarded?

By the way, your argument was baseless and free of useful debate content, just like we knew it would be.

O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. This is particularly true in government circles. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". All in all, Roy may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be".

Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a

By far my favorite line from this knave.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:57:22 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us:

Bugger off, troll dipshit!

First, I do not have a copy of the current Canadian Electrical Code. I would call a Provincial or local building official for a proper answer. But in the USA.... Using solder on stranded building wire used in building electrical systems is not a normal trade practice. First, it is not economical, and secondly, there are too many different methods and materials that can be used to solder. Soldering can be more damaging than helpful if not done properly. For instance wicking can cause wires to become brittle and permit breakage. There are many alloys of solder some requiring the use of resin core others the use of acid for soldering. Soldering, in short, introduces a whole range of variables that cannot be controlled in the field. But the main reason it is not done is it simply takes too much time and is not necessary. For splicing, wire nuts are commonly used. For terminations, buy receptacles and switches that are listed for use with stranded wire. If you have to use solid wire for terminations, then attach a pigtail then wire nut the solid wire to the stranded wire. Better yet, replace the stranded wire with solid. The NEC Section requiring that the listing instructions be followed is 110.3(B). This has been in the (USA) National Electrical Code for as long as I can remember.

References:

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. 110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment. FPN: Many terminations and equipment are marked with a tightening torque. (A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors. Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong.

Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well.

Don't know what TOFU is?

about a third of the way down...

So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised?

Of course not. It's *his* standard.

Wow, you sure told him off, Numby.

Stop top posting, fish.

I can tell you off now, if you really want.

Thanks for the pointer [bow].

Copper wires melt at a higher temperature to any solde you may use.

If there is a lot of heat generated in the circuitry you could melt the solder.

The orders of magnitude of *linear* expansion of the metals you refer to

Aluminium (pure) alpha = 23*10^-6 (20 at 200K, 23.2 at 300K, 24.9 at 400K,

26.4 at 500K, 28.3 600, 33.8 at 800K you could graph it from that)

Copper (pure) alpha = 13.7 *10^-6 (15.1 at 200K, 16.8, 17.7, 18.3, 18.9, 20 at 800K)

per deltaKelvin.

melting point Al= 933K, Cu=1356.

if you find the data for the solder you use you can calculate your expansion characteristics (absolute and relative) and also check to see if your solder will melt.

Using the data for the thermo-electric effects and the dimensions of the lines inquestion you cna calculate the heat evolved by the current in the lines, terminals and all.

Is there any reason to consider tinning the ends when fixing through a screw terminal? The surface area of contact would be increased at the contact I suppose, and thereby increase the area of contact for the passage of electrons, but the cables should never be used *at capacity*. Next thought is on how the crimped terminals of the wires lose area of contact for passage of electrons and hence the heat evolved on the lines at the terminal(s) increases as a proportion borne on each line. Hence consideration would lead me to increase cable sizes and design cable sizes for the terminals; the specifications being based upon the surface area made at the fixing and the heat I would wish to allow there.