Getting a 2 year degree worth it?

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:10:16 GMT, Ken Gave us:

Using a client that allows one to press "send" over and over again calls for changing the client to one that actually had more than two days programming time coded into it. Your interpretive powers lack a bit as well, considering your new take on those that responded to you.

Reply to
TokaMundo
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Why not both? The apprenticeship if you can pull it off would be a great way to work your way through college. I found that working my way was much easier when I put JOB FIRST. Having secure emploment made college much easier.

Reply to
Jimmie

| I top post when I sure no one will want to read what you have written. You | should consider a career in the pre owned vehicle market. You don't have | the attitude to do anything meaningful.

When top posting, there's no point to including the referenced article. Just leave it out; we know how to go back and read previous articles.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

| For one thing, it is NOT an e-mail. Number two would be that using | a better NEWS client might help.

It's not necessarily the client. If there is a network problem, and the client's host network stack gets a "no route to host" error, it may close the TCP connection. If the client sees the connection close before it gets the 240 response to the POST command, it would be normal to presume the POST failed. It could have closed due to intermittent network problems at the same time as a sluggish news server. The first 8 posts went to one server (the likely slow one) and the 9th went to a different one, which likely responded quickly.

Protocols like this do have a narrow window of exposure to the "goodbye race condition". At some point someone has to assume the conversation is over without really knowing for sure. For NNTP, that is done by the server without knowing if the client received the 240 response sent by the server after a successful POST. Slow servers and flaky networks can widen that narrow window.

Give the guy a break. Jump on his ISP if you want.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

| Using a client that allows one to press "send" over and over again | calls for changing the client to one that actually had more than two | days programming time coded into it. Your interpretive powers lack a | bit as well, considering your new take on those that responded to you.

I sure as hell would NEVER use a client that refused to let me retry a post when the first attempt failed.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Donald Cutler) wrote in :

A lot depends upon where you study for your degree and what you want to do with it. Some associate degrees are worth more to prospective employers than others. When I was in college (Penn State) in 1967 - 69, we were exposed to a broad range of engineering topics such as drafting, mechanics, strength of materials, physics and engineering math. Specialized electrical/electronics classes taught us basic electricity/electronics, electrical machines, electrical/electronic control circuits, electric power generation and distribution and advanced electronics. In addition we were required to take classes in history, public speaking, economics, humanities and English. Some of my contemporaries took classes at a local technical training center and were awarded an Associate degree from that accredited school. While they got deeper into practical electronics, I got a broad base of theory that enabled me to adapt my learning to specialized fields later, with minimal extra training. While the technical training center produced excellent technicians, the University produced budding engineers.

Reply to
Tom Lager

On 19 Aug 2005 22:05:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us:

Your an idiot. Not every reader will have access to every article. You know nothing about Usenet.

Reply to
TokaMundo

On 19 Aug 2005 22:16:34 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us:

It didn't fail, dipshit. If one is ON a sever, one is already LOGGED in. One would have no problem sending one's message with a single click of the send button. Seems your knowledge of human interface lacks a bit. It's a poorly programmed client that allows something so stupid. I can RESEND my posts, but I only get to send ONCE. You are clueless.

Reply to
TokaMundo

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:57:46 GMT TokaMundo wrote: | On 19 Aug 2005 22:05:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us: | |>On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:13:54 GMT B J Conner wrote: |>

|>| I top post when I sure no one will want to read what you have written. You |>| should consider a career in the pre owned vehicle market. You don't have |>| the attitude to do anything meaningful. |>

|>When top posting, there's no point to including the referenced article. |>Just leave it out; we know how to go back and read previous articles. | | Your an idiot. Not every reader will have access to every article. | You know nothing about Usenet.

You are using way too much of that weed.

Any decent news server (I used to run them back in the 1990's) will have a month's worth of articles, which is fine if you are reading the article soon after posting. And if you are reading it months later, you're obviously reading from an archive like Google Groups which almost everyone has. The only risk of not being able to read what the posting refers to is if you happen to be in the narrow edge between when the original is deleted but before the followup has been.

You are the idiot here. You know nothing about the NNTP protocol.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:00:32 GMT TokaMundo wrote: | On 19 Aug 2005 22:16:34 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us: | |>On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:36:05 GMT TokaMundo wrote: |>

|>| Using a client that allows one to press "send" over and over again |>| calls for changing the client to one that actually had more than two |>| days programming time coded into it. Your interpretive powers lack a |>| bit as well, considering your new take on those that responded to you. |>

|>I sure as hell would NEVER use a client that refused to let me retry a |>post when the first attempt failed. | | It didn't fail, dipshit. If one is ON a sever, one is already | LOGGED in. One would have no problem sending one's message with a | single click of the send button. Seems your knowledge of human | interface lacks a bit. It's a poorly programmed client that allows | something so stupid. I can RESEND my posts, but I only get to send | ONCE. You are clueless.

You're doing way too much of that weed. It has destroyed your brain (assuming you ever had one to begin with).

If the TCP connection is LOST during the sending, before the client gets back a positive acknowledgement, the correct course of action for a client is to retain the message. Whether it QUEUES the message for AUTOMATIC reposting when a new connection is established, or requires the user to click POST again is part of the client design choice. But that has nothing to do with the original cause of failure.

The client design that would repost automatically is also a dangerous one. It is very possible (and indeed really happened in this case) that a bad condition in a network or server really can result in re-submission. If the TCP connection to the NNTP port is lost, the only way to get the message posted is to establish a new connection (while in the mean time, the server thought the prior posting had completed). In this NEW connection, everything starts all over again since the original connection state is not a part of the new connection. It even requires logging in all over again where login is required (most places now days).

I take it you have never done protocol design and implementation. I have, and I know the complex issues involved. A lot has been learned since the first protocols for TCP/IP were designed.

Servers really can get bogged down. Servers really can have a flaky network interface card that causes intermitted or rapid network failures. If you believe these things can't ever happen, you obviously haven't worked in any high tech environment.

So get a clue, pickle brain.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

Sorry to hear about your getting laid off. Hope things get better for you.

Yes, a two year degree is worth it. Do a Career Builder search and you'll find there are more employeers offering jobs that desire techs with ASEETs or AASEETs than another degree in this discipline. However, I would suggest you keeping your options open. Take a few classes and see how you do. If you have a good handle on it, consider taking math and physics classes that will transfer over to a 4 year program. If you take "tech math" and college physics...you will have to take 2xxx level classes in order to move ahead. Getting a BSEET will get you into better paying jobs 2-3 years less time. If you are content with just a 2 year degree, keep in mind that your computational skills will always be your greatest asset. If you have the time to invest in learning higher math, you'll be a better tech for it. Same goes for physics. Finally learn a couple of programming languages. Assembly and C++ would be ideal.

On the downside, there are limits to your education's ROI. Advanced degrees do not mean great, high payng jobs. Getting a MSEE or above would be a total waste of time if you plan on working in the states. Unless you are teaching, you would be ridiculously over qualified for most jobs. In fact, most of America's R&D will be done in India and China within the next few years. So...plan your education carefully and keep tabs on what is going on in the area you plan to work and live--it varies big time.. Sadly, engineering in general is a fairly shaky profession these days and it's not just electrical. The majority are getting hit in one way or another; some worse than others.

Hope this helps

Reply to
Pete J. Ahacich

What other areas would you suggest looking into to be viable as a worker in the Midwest of the USA?

Serious question...

Thanks

I'm in school myself. Never went to college but now going at age 47.

I'm taking college algebra and econ. Only 6 hrs per semester right now

Hence the question above.

John

Reply to
me

If you want to be an engineer, consider civil engineering or electrical (power systems) engineer in the Midwest. In the upper Midwest, mechanical engineers still seem to be in high demand though this is shakier than the first two I mentioned (shakier because it depends on manufacturing of industrial and transportation equipment...the first two depend on municipal construction projects).

Good luck, George

Reply to
george

What is your field of expertise? We have trouble getting qualified engineers because they all have multiple offers. The power industry is starting to come back around and will likely experience a surge in new hires in the next 5 years as the older engineers retire. I know of several large utilities that are planning large increases in their capital expenditures over the next decade to make up for nearly 2 decades of "getting by".

Charles Perry P.E.

Reply to
Charles Perry

No... I don't necessarily want to be an engineer.... but that's what my tendencies are things and gadgets. But I realize that its not such a great industry right now

I do agree with you on the power systems engineer tho. I have buddies who work in a local "peaker plant" and they cant MAKE enough electricity.

Reply to
me

I agree with you abt a 2 yr degree being close to worthless.... but for someone like me who has NO degree a 2 yr degree is better than nothing. Yes?

I'm trying to break this down into goals. The "immediate" goal is a 2 yr degree. If I achieve that goal I will then worry abt a 4 yr degree. Do this in stages yes?

Your idea above on a business degree is also something that's occurred to me. I've bounced around a combo business and IT degree. Or accounting and IT degree. Reason being is it's very general degree and like you said maybe not as "volatile" as an engineering degree. Agree?

Frankly I'm viewing a degree just as another "tool in the toolbox". Something I will use if needed. but not something to depend on to bring me money or happiness.

I'm sorry to hear abt your unemployment situation. especially with your EE degree and 20 yrs experience!!

I'm worried abt where the US economy is headed. I fear the standard of living is slowly dropping and we just don't know it.

I will read 'Fire Your Boss" book

Back to you.

Reply to
me

Unfortunately (considering where I live), it is test automation (A.T.E.) for manufacturing test of electronic products. It's been awhile since I've heard of multiple offers...glad to hear that is happening again. That definitely hasn't been the case for me or anyone I know around here. The really silly thing (IMHO) is that I often DO get passed over due to limited (1 year) automotive experience... doesn't seem to matter that I've worked on satellites, missiles, computer products, GPS (including satellite simulators), medical products, etc...guess I'm just not "bright" enough to figure out automotive sensors that buzz because you left your lights on .

George

Reply to
george

It is a funny thing about American society and what seems to be valued the most...with the exception of lawyers and doctors, all of the highest paid occupations that I can think of DON'T require college. Well, I'm working on "going with the flow", and becoming a financial advisor (takes about 8 weeks of hard study + about another 10 weeks of company product specific training + about

6 months to build up a customer base), after all that, the LOWEST paid one that I know personally (I know three) makes $200k.

Good luck in whatever you decide, George

Reply to
george

I know George. And this is what worries me abt even going back to school at my age (47).

I personally know people who have cleaning businesses that make more than my engineer boss. Less stress, less hassle and they make more money. Go figure.

I'm sure I will continue with the classes even if I have to take 3 hrs per semester. But I'm giving VERY serious thought to alternate sources of income that do NOT require a degree. Not sure what tho. Heck maybe a coffle shop?

Wow!

If this works out for you do you see yourself never being an engineer again?

Reply to
me

Ouch. The electronics industry has to be the worst for electrical engineers right now. My brother has never (14 years since graduation) worked in his field. He has an aerospace engineering degree. He ended up as a production engineer at a wire manufacturer.

Charles Perry P.E.

Reply to
Charles Perry

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