I don't know where you come from but in Canada we train our Engineers to think and not get their hands dirty. We have Engineering technologists (3 year college) that can do both quite well. A technician (2 years college) will do the dirty work for you and is trained to get his hands dirty. Our Engineers (3-4 years University) are not trained to use tools of any kind. Of course some call anybody an Engineer these days and with some of them we call them everything else also.
---------- Actually that is no more necessary than the knowledge of class B vs class A amplifiers is to "most" engineers. What is necessary is a solid understanding of circuit analysis and numerical techniques. Most of all, what an engineer needs is the ability to use what is in his head. What is learned at school is a set of general tools and a way of thinking. The training is not aimed at how to solder or how to file a chunk of metal. For example, I am a lousy welder- I have done it and the welds held but were rather crude and sloppy. Why should I try to replace a trained welder? I can design what he is to put together and discuss this with him- often he will point out practical improvements- net result is a lot better than if he or I were to try to do the job independently. The same holds for any engineer/machinist or electronic technician combination.
-- Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@peeshaw.ca remove the urine to answer
-------------- I used to be in the business of trying to train (academically) Canadian engineers to think for about 35 years. I have also seen the training that they get in good schools in the US-much the same. The problem is that too many think they know something when they graduate- they don't- they have a set of "tools" (mental, physical and mathematical) but aren't much use until they learn the practicalities in industry. They have a lot to learn from the "lowly technicians". Those that realise this do well. They also get dirty hands from time to time and benefit from co-operation with technicians . That's part of the learning process- what's on paper isn't necessarily what is there (and I have literally crawled around in the dirt because of the need to find out what is actually there). What theory predicts is often modified by the "perversity of inanimate objects". This may also be why co-op programs which mix academic and industrial experience are so good for both student and industry. I am not advocating that the university engineering programs get involved in machining and soldering techniques, etc. . That is not a viable option these days.
-- Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@peeshaw.ca remove the urine to answer
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. In my fourth year (at a Canadian university) one of the requirements of one of the courses we took (a kernel elective) was that the student design a whole analog system (be it a TCA, ADC, DAC, etc.) and actually build it, using a PERMANENT technique. While wirewrapping was permitted (and a few students did it that way) soldering was recommended. The rational from the prof is that he doesn't want graduated EE's to be out there that don't even know how to build a physical circuit. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the marks came out...) not all EEs had to take that course, but I certainly agree with the sentiment. TTYL
Don IIT the indian university is an engineering school and teaches all sorts of engineering. It is not unreasonable that they teach some of their mechanical students how to machine a peice of steel. That helps them know what can and can not be done.
You are only considering your own experiance and not those of many other engineers. There was a program about line men on the History channel last night.
I did not understand one thing. They had tie bars to tie 2 and 4 lines together. I assume that they are all at the same potential and they use 2 and 4 wirres rather than a single larger one for some reason.
I can not immagine haveing my body raised to 500,000 volts for hands on work. I could not believe the number of line men killed. Something like 960 in the past 12 years. I believe they should put up parrelel lines a few feet apart so that one line on seperate smaller towers so can be turned off while it is being worked on. How does OSHA let them get away with this . . I DO NOT FOLLOW MANY OF THESE NEWS GROUPS To answere me address mail to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
Which is cheaper to have made - one thick custom-wound cable or several lighter cables of a standard size?
I believe that live-line maintenance method is not unlike a Faraday cage... and not unlike how a bird can perch on a line without fear of being shocked...
Do you seriously think a utility would be willing to go to the great expense to have a parallel line built just in the remote case that maintenance may be needed on one circuit?
I do know that one utility in British Columbia actually took this approach to the extreme in one case - not for maintenance but simply because of the ever-growing electric demand placed on one particular line - the picture I had seen of this 69kV line had SIX poles side by side (all of different vintages)... I was assured that they were in fact connected in parallel from point A to point B and not 6 separate lines following the same right right of way! Why they didn't just build a newer line at a higher voltage, I don't know.
Birds do not perch on these 500,000 volt lines. When they do, they sort of glow.
Men working on these lines wear wear metal suits. even though they they are at the high voltage.
I guess at that voltage, the current would flow off you . . . I DO NOT FOLLOW MANY OF THESE NEWS GROUPS To answere me address mail to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
Nobody can stand the corona that would come off your body while you worked. The continuous discharge into the air from your skin is really painful after a while and hard on your eyes and hair. The faraday cage and.or full metal jacket relieves all this.
That is what the show said. And that is why birds do not land on those wires. . . I DO NOT FOLLOW MANY OF THESE NEWS GROUPS To answere me address mail to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
You do not have to limit yoursleves to the Electrical Engineering profession, or even the Engineering Profession to find examples like above.
I think that there are always those that think themselves above somebody else who they perceive to be a lesser person. weather the difference is Education, Ethnic orign, political standing, or religious beliefs. They do have to be engineers to think like this.
My Life experience has taught me that we all have something to learn and benefit from almost anybody else.
Anybody that is arogant enough to say that they know Everything about Anything, is indeed showing the true magnitude of their own ignorance.
The truely good engineers will be those that have the sound and expansive knowledge of their field, the flexible and enquiring mind to find answers where others cannot, the desire to find out things first hand if they do not understand it, the fortitude to listen to anybody who has something to contribute, to a situation
and most of all, the ability to shut up when they have nothing to say.
> Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. In my fourth year (at a Canadian
> > university) one of the requirements of one of the courses we took (a > kernel
> > elective) was that the student design a whole analog system (be it a TCA,
> > ADC, DAC, etc.) and actually build it, using a PERMANENT technique. While
> > wirewrapping was permitted (and a few students did it that way) soldering
> > was recommended. The rational from the prof is that he doesn't want
> > graduated EE's to be out there that don't even know how to build a > physical
> > circuit. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the marks came out...) not all > EEs
> > had to take that course, but I certainly agree with the sentiment. TTYL > ----
> That is good. Many student projects are of this sort. One course that I
> know of had the availability of a microelectronics lab which included the
> making of wafers so the project included the design of and manufacture of
> chips. On the other hand, some universities have gone to simulation for
> circuits courses so the students do not see actual components or get to make
> them smell funny. That is asinine (but cheap).
Wow, that must have been expensive! :) At my univeristy it was all simulation, and having worked in industry I don't think it's that bad an idea, "real" VLSI designers ever see the "real" chips, once the chips have been made they've got another project to work on! :) TTYL
---------------- The simulation that I mentioned was the use of circuit simulations (and virtual scopes etc) for uncergraduate labs in circuits and basic electronics, rather than using real components and instruments- saves money but ????.
As to the microelectronics design, that was part of the purpose of the facility -in addition to commercial special chip manufacture -There is a longish story about this but as I was not even peripheral to it- I won't try to comment further as I could be out to lunch on this (except that students in a particular course did get to see their designs realised
-- Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@peeshaw.ca remove the urine to answer
It reminds me of what happened to me in an electronics class. Now I had been working on converters for a number of years qne I took this class to qualify for advanced credit. The teacher was discussing inverters and I could not figure out what he was talking about. So I raised my hand and asked. What kind of inverter are you talking about. He told me it was a single stage amplifier inverting a signal.
Well I had never considered any thing so simple. Well I got 100% on ever test and I aced the final and knew I would have 100% on that. Well the instructor lost the finals and never graded them, He was a lazy sob. He gave me a B when I clearly should have gotten an A. (It really did not matter as all I had to do was pass to get credit for 2 other electronics classes.
I asked him why I got a B and he told me I was a smart ass and he wanted to give me a C but could not justify that. If I had complained he couldn't have justified the B instead of an A with 100 percent on every peice of work I handed in.
I decided one day his ass would be mine. What goes around comes around.
Well I was working for a Major company and a program was way behind and I was called in to make it work.
My boss who was my good buddy told me that a Consultant had run the program and he was that teacher who had given me a B. He told me I was not to say any thing nasty to the guy at the meeting he was taking me too. I told him that would never happen, I would insult the hell out of him. If my boss did not like it he could get some one else to design, test and build a converter in six weeks for a launch. Well we bargained for a little bit and he agreed I deserved to insult the guy one time and we went to the meeting. My former instructor gave a weak smile when I walked into the room, he knew something would pop. He started to explain his circuit and I started to butt in and my boss told me to be quite. I tried again and by boss told me to be quite again, Now the guy went on for about a half hour explaining his circuit and I sat on my hands.,
Went the guy was finished my boss asked me that I thought of it. I got up, pointed to one thing, said because of this the whole thing would not work and could not be made to work, time taken, about 10 seconds. Every one sat there with their mouth open, My boss stuttered, Bush why didn't you say something. One of my buddies, another project engineer came to my defence and told the boss, Art you told him to be quite. Another stunned silence. then It was my turn to get up and give my approach. This was my big chance. I got up and started, Now we are going to talk about my type of converters. My boss jumped up and shouted, that's it Bush, you said just one insult and you had it. Every one broke into laughter and the meeting went on.
Well I came up with a whole new concept and that Power supply was still operating 35 years later to Nasa's chagrin. But that is another bubba mienser. . . I DO NOT FOLLOW MANY OF THESE NEWS GROUPS To answere me address mail to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
Dark matter, I am a creative speller and I had secretaries to correct my spelling now crawl back under your rock. . . I DO NOT FOLLOW MANY OF THESE NEWS GROUPS To answere me address mail to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.