biometric gunsafe

Greetings.

I am in search of a biometric gunsafe, preferably one that utilizes an entire hand, versus just a single finger, for authentication. Ideally, this will be a wall unit, and even more ideally, if such a concept exists, it can be mounted flush into the wall. It must have a backup battery system. I would also like it to be quick, and quiet (volume control including muted as well as mechanically silent), in authorizing and opening.

I have searched various sites, but with little direction. What are some suggestions, in regards to quality, biometric safes?

TIA

.times enemy

Reply to
times enemy
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OK, how many tens of thousands of dollars are you planning to invest in this?

(Not joking. Single-finger readers and software have become affordable. Whole-hand is a whole different ballgame.)

Reply to
Joe Kesselman

Greetings.

*TENS* of thousands of dollars is not acceptable at this time, but perhaps a few thousand may be, depending on the bang.

What options are there for the whole-hand readers?

Should the full hand scanner not be acceptable, what are the better, if not best, single-finger readers?

.times enemy

Joe Kesselman wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

Fingerprint and hand scanners don't provide positive prove of identity on their own. Hand scanners have a one-in-a-few-thousand chance of a random match and fingerprint readers only do a five point match on a single finger. If you want secure then use an eye scanner (did you say cost is no object?).

Fingerprint readers are a common computer peripheral device these days, some of the new cell phones even have them and you can buy them over the counter as a USB device. One of your local access control companies should be able to knock up a safe using one of these. Don't expect cheap. Hand scanners are comparatively uncommon.

Be aware that all of the commonly used fingerprint readers can be subverted by someone with time on their hands and a sample of your fingerprint:-

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(scroll down) Maybe you should also check whether an unsupervised fingerprint reader would satisfy local firearm storage regulations, if you have them, before spending all that money.

Reply to
Roger_Nickel

Greetings.

I am not entirely concerned about high-security, per se, as so much as i am about quick and silent access to the contents of the safe.

I did not say that money was not an object. An eye scanner is not viable for this client. Nor would a mod'ed safe with an off-the-shelf single-finger biometric authentication unit. Hehe. No, that especially will not fly here. I did not mention that my client also wants it to, "look cool." Unfortunately, i will be very biased, because i think a lot of safes and security devices "look cool," at least to my eye.

I am not too concerned about the system being brute-forced. Most likely, the robust structural design of the building, as well as external and internal alarmS, in addition to the multiple individuals and dogs roaming the property, should negate this possibility.

In response to the local firearms storage ... well, i figure if we can leave them on the desk, strapped to chairs, in the restrooms, closets, and so forth, then inside the safe should not be an issue.

No, i am looking for a biometric wall safe that can be used to quickly and quietly access weapons for use against physical invaders. Money is an object, but if i can justify the cost ....

What are high-security sites using? What are some suggestions? What are some companies that may have solutions? One area i have yet to check is executive protection services ... who may have had needs in this area. I figured alt.locksmithing, with it's wealth of knowledge would have and share the information i need. Anything?

.times enemy

Roger_Nickel wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

Times Enemy:

I don't think that you will be able to find a "safe" that can be configured "cost effectively" with the specifications you have described so far...

As to the guns being stored in this "containment", are you talking long arms or pistols ??? There will be a difference in the size of the box you will need to construct...

Now to the "biometeric" access components... Typically with a "safe" the gizmos that run the lock are contained within the confines of the door of the container... I am no expert on biometerics but the hardware that will run it will take up a lot more space than an electriconic combination lock will...

Might I suggest that you propose the construction of a closet, one of very "robust structural design"... Potentially made of cinder block, but if not reinforced wooden construction insulated with mineral wool (to protect the firearms from heat in the event of a fire), with a solid metal fire rated door... This "closet" door could be secured with multiple magnetic locks, such as the ones made by Locknetics (which can be equipped to run silently) operated by the afore mentioned "biometeric" access device of your choice...

Of course you will have to equip this set-up with some type of redundant power supply in order to ensure that it will remain secured if the power to the structure fails... Some kind of auxiliary power would be a good thing to make sure that any container secured with a biometeric locking device will be able to be operated when power in the building fails...

As to your question of how those entrusted with executive protection handle weapons storage, they don't, at least not the way your "client" seems to want to do it... Weapons are stored ON SOMEONE'S PERSON... Those protecting executives are more often than not armed at all times... If storage of weapons is necessary, it is done in standard gun safes... Not too many people require silent-biometerically- access-controlled "safes" to store weapons in...

Good Luck with your design quest...

Evan, ~~formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

Reply to
Evan

Greetings.

Yes, i should have specified, that the primary type of weapon that will be stored are pistols with extra ammunition (boxed and loaded into extra clips). The relevance of using shotguns was discussed, but quickly dismissed as the entities who will be using these weapons (hopefully not), are not trained with shotguns, nor are they likely to be. Plus, shotguns are messy both with wetware and hardware damage.

In regards to mechanical aspects of the safe, there are currently units on the market, but they are single-digit authentication units. The advertisements i have found online show glass doors, which is not acceptable for my client. I know the technology exists, but who is selling it i am not sure of.

The concept of a closet has been and continues to be discussed, however, as mentioned, these biometric safes will be distributed throughout the building(s), which is not feasible should the closet design be used. This is the primary reason for not choosing closets. However, i do like the concepts you discussed for the DIY method. :)

In response to getting feedback from executive protection ppl, i just finished a conversation with one gentleman who's employeer offers various training to their clients. Once their clients have become "qualified" with a handgun, they may offer consulting services which include suggestions for up'ing in-home security, including gun safes. It is my desire to learn what they are suggesting in such situations, as my client could benefit from this information.

There has to be someone out there, or perhaps a government agency, that has a solution that fits my clients needs. Surely he is not the first to have these requirements. FWIW, he is loving the fact that i am thus far stumped. I tell him if wants to throw more money at the issue, we might be able to play with the big boys, however, i am not entirely sure they will play back.

.times enemy

Evan wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

How many of these "safes" does this "client" need ??? If someone is paranoid to the point that they require several firearms available from "silently operated biometerically access controlled" safes they should really consider the type(s) of things they are doing in the building(s) and either relocate to a "safer" location or stop doing what they are doing...

Or maybe consider carrying a firearm on their person

24/7...

As to your client's needs for this type of "safe" I have never heard of something like this before... The government stores firearms in standard gun safes, or in wall mounted racks in supervised rooms... Not too many people require a device to store firearms where they can get at them silently via means of biometerics...

Reply to
Evan

ok, not knowing all the 'gun web sites', Have you searched like 'shooters times', and other magazines like that? NRA might even have a listing of gun safes that would apply.. dont know..

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

I strongly suspect that if they are indeed "requirements" rather than a Walter Mitty fantasy (or a bad spy movie), he is indeed the first.

In other words, you're feeding his fantasy. Great for him, but how much is that worth to you?

Reply to
Joe Kesselman

There are gun safes designed with that in mind. Typically they're combo-based and designed to be easy to key by touch.

Definitely Walter Mitty. From my point of view, the coolest safe would be an invisible one.

Reply to
Joe Kesselman

Yep, he could install his safe in the same room as his 'cone of silence' ....... :-)

Reply to
Steve Paris

Cone of silence. Way cool! I want to get one for the twins.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Think about something for a moment. A single digit scanner is as I understand cheap. If I understand this you push a finger on to a pad, it reads the print, compares it with the memory and if they agree then a solenoid gets juiced and the door is unlocked. Seems to me if you mounted or 4 of these on the door it would not be too tough for you to design a logic circuit to say as an example right index finger on pad one, then right pinkie on pad 3, then thumb on pad 2. any other order or sequence would not juice the solenoid and the safe would stay locked.

This way even if someone were to go to the trouble of squishing up Gummy Bears and making fake finger prints they would have to figure out the secondary combination also.

It also would not be too tough to give a time delay if a certain number of try's failed to give you a correct sequence.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Greets.

The number of "safes" they need is more than one. As to their level of paranoia, it is not really for me to determine that.

They do carry. I am not sure if they carry 24/7 or not, nor do i really care.

I am not sure what you mean, when you say, "As to your client's needs for this type of "safe" I have never heard of something like this before...." Neither had i, until he brought it up. I said i would look into it, and here we are.

It seems there are various people in the building who are not trained and/or authorized to use various weapons should the need arise. (Completely another issue, which is outside the scope of my search.) Because he is trying to eliminate the constant carrying of weapons inside the building or something, he said he wants to create a couple caches of weapons that could be easily, quickly, and silently accessible to authorized persons. I believe it to be a neat idea, and should we find a solution for him, i know of several other clients who may want similar setups, if anything, for their homes.

If you know of any manufacturers, or companies offering full hand-reader biometric (gun) safes, please let me know about it.

.te

Evan wrote: ... snip ...

Reply to
times enemy

Greetings.

I have asked several buddies (gun owners and such) about this, and they either have gun safes, carry on their person, or do something akin to stashing a gun under a pillow or on a shelf. Basically, i have not had any responses remotely close to what i am looking for.

As to searching magazines, i have searched various online sites, to no avail. I have searched the couple hardcopy magazines i own, and i am probably going to visit a local library fairly soon here, however i believe the library has a digital archive online.

The other option i am going to check out is the next big gun show that is in town. Plus, that would be a good time to get some extra hi-cap clips.

FWIW, everything i have found thus far is single-digit readers.

.te

--Shiva-- wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

Greets.

As i mentioned earlier, a homebrew solution is not acceptable here. I would love to have someone pay me to play, but they simply will not do so.

.te

Roger Shoaf wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

Greets.

I take it you guys don't have a clue. If you did, i would expect at least a name of a possible company or two to contact that mixes safes and biometrics, or some sort of lead.

Thanks anyways.

.te

Roger Shoaf wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

It is okay to admit that you do not know the answer.

FWIW, he said, "I want...," which interprets as "requirements."

Joe Kesselman wrote:

Reply to
times enemy

I would imagine that the 'safe' is made, but, not available to the public..

take a regular safe with a key pad, and get a full hand scanner instead..??? substitute the hand pad.. sell at gun shows and retire.. perhaps there IS a need for this.

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

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