Does Simplex 1021B have passage function?

yes.. no 'lockout' on wrong button codes.. keep trying and you WILL get it open , I believe top time is an hour IIRR, according to discussion some time back. you are allowed to use EACH button ONCE>.in whatever code you pick.. IE. 511 is NOT allowed, once a number is used ONCE it CNNOT be reused. 51325 cannot be used..

--Shiva--

Someone ran a logic program, and decoded all the possible Simplex combinations. I remember someone published it on the Net. so, it doesn't take all that long to try all the possible combinations.

However, that's little known compared to jiggle keys, bump keys, and so on.

In article <E0a9h.2304$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Mike R snipped-for-privacy@mike.com wrote: : :Seperate question: Are there any known security problems with this :particular lock? I'm not talking about vulnerabilities of the SFIC key :override which I am familiar with and consider acceptable. I'm talking :inherent security vulnerabilities with the simplex 1000 series design :itself.

They can be opened by manipulation in under 10 minutes, typically. There is an unadvertised so-called "high security" way to set a combination, but someone "in the know" about the technique can open a high security combination faster than one set in the normal way.

Those locks are suitable for preventing casual entry where someone fiddling with the lock for a few minutes would be certain to attract unwanted attention and are singularly inappropriate in many other places, such as an out-of-view back door into a basement or a "secure" closet at the back of a seldom visited storage area.

If it doesn't already have the necessary parts for passage function, it's easy to add the needed parts which come in either thumb turn or key controlled. Check the parts manual for what you'll need. Grrly Girl Lou

Yeah I'm familiar with the half press bit. It doesn't seem to add that much in the way of possible combos.

The application in question here is not a high security one but it is not a low security one either. I need them for about 6 or 7 loffice doors in a professional building. These are not high security doors so the lock just has to be as good as the door but surrepticious entry would not be a good thing especially on an ongoing basis. If they get in I would prefer they have to do damage so the problem is known. I am also looking for something that will get me away from key control problems. A push button lock preferably mechanical, but I might consider an electronic, with a key override. The key won't be distributed and will be used only for failures of the combination mechanism or lost combinations. They also need to permit a passage function that can be eneabled or disabled as needed. Are there any of these mechanical pushbotton locks that are not vulneable to manipulation? How about the simplex 5000 series? Do I have to go electronic to avoid these manipulation/not many distinct combos vulnerabilities?

Thanks

Do any of the mechanical models have lockout after too many bad combo attempts?

keep trying and you

This part I know and it would be OK if there were a limit to the number of bad combos that could be tried perferably requiring a key override when the limit was reached so that we would know somebody was fooling with it.

yes --Shiva--

no, AFAIK it cannot be done..

You a re looking at some higher $ electronic ones unfortunately. OR, if security/key control is a somewhat problem, there are some available 'higher security' as far as getting the keys copied, WITHOUT going the high expense Medeco or Assa and the like. Winkhause is one that comes to mind. and Lori also has one of a lesser IMO security but far better than a run of the mill key way

--Shiva--

In article <Q7Oah.4061$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Mike R snipped-for-privacy@mike.com wrote: : :Yeah I'm familiar with the half press bit. It doesn't seem to add that much :in the way of possible combos.

There are 1082 "normal" combinations and 1081 "high ssecurity" combinations, but I have to agree that roughly doubling a small number still yields a pretty small number.

Somebody makes, or made, an electronic combination box to replace the manipulation prone and combination challenged mechanical one for the 1000 series locks. I can't remember who but if I do I will post it. It essentially drops in place of the mechanical combination chamber and does away with the mechanical units main limitations. The outward appearance of the lock is unchanged but the noticable click is gone when buttons are pressed.

In practice this is a lot of combos to stand at a door you aren't supposed to be messing with and try, unless somebody has totally unrestricted and private access to the area in question and usually where these locks are used they don't, other than maybe janitors and they probably have key override access anyway to do their jobs. The real problem with these locks is how vulnerable they are to manipulation and the very nature of them means that once you figure out a few positions the number left to try decreases radically. Like I wrote in another post some company came up with an electronic combination chamber to replace the mechanical one that improves security quite a bit but it was never very widespread and I haven't seen one in a while. It was a good option especially for a company that already had a bunch of these locks and didn't want to replace them outright.

Most of the people and businesses selling these, especially online, will not tell you any of this. In my spare time I have done some informal phone and email surveying posing as an end user, including some very recently of various sellers and they will generally tell you things like that the lock is "pickproof" etc. Even when coached and flat out confronted with the facts they typically deny the manipulation vulnerability as some sort of urban legend. Some may really not know but I have run across quite a few that were familiar enough with the lock to correctly explain it's mechanical workings or claim that they had rebuilt combination chambers etc, and even a few who admitted they had read about the vulnerability online virtually all of whom still tried to claim the lock was essentialy burglar proof. With security devices like anything else: Buyer beware. On the other hand I have gotten some really good online deals on these brand new in the box but if they lie to me about the locks security then I avoid them because who knows what else they are lying about?

OK here it is: