I have a set of Titan (factory cut) keys with the first cut 1-7. When I
need to generate a code-cut key for a Titan I do the first cut with one of
the factory "masters' on my duplicator and the rest of the cuts on my code
cutter. Beats changing cutter wheels.
YEAH... me too..
duplicate the FIRST cut as needed on a regular duplicator.. then
can do the rest on the other machine..
(this assumes that I EVER run out of the 20# of Kwikset precuts I
was given by a hardware wholesaler one time)
I made a set of keys for a competitor so he could originate keys for worn
out ones he had. It was a set of 36 KW11 keys with only a single cut on
each one. Six keys for each depth at each of the six positions. Tricky
'lil divel, ain't I? :)
The problem with depth keys like this is the geometry of the blade on the
duplicator. If the angle on the blade is narrower than proper key geometry
then you have problem with keys getting stuck.
A good compromise can be to cut your ones and twos in a fashion you suggest
and then for the deeper cuts cut 2 depth keys one for the odd cuts, and one
for the even cuts.
Hmm. Yep, see what you mean.
I was thinking that the keys made on an code cutter (I use a Framon) with a
proper Kw cutter should work though.
I mean, if I originated a Kw key, using Kw depths and spacing, and Kw
cutter, it would certainly duplicate properly. Wouldn't it?
Lets suppose I do have 6 properly spaced and cut Titan keys, 1-1-1-1- etc.,
through 6-6-6-6-etc. and I want to originate a Titan key, for example
6-3-4-3-6-3. First off, I would chuck up my blank and the 6-6-6-6-6-6
key. Make the first and fifth cuts. Chuck up the 4-4-4-4-4-4 key and
make the third cut. Chuck up the 3-3-3-3-3-3 key and make the second, forth
and sixth cuts. Assuming my originator keys were cut properly, shouldn't
'Course with the Titan, all the first cuts on the originater series would
have to be either hand cut or copied from a factory blank. pita
the first cut bow side is straight.. which, with the width of
the cutter used, means you cannot on the Framon..wipes the
then you got to change to the slotter, THEN make the tip side
heck with it.. copy the first cut off original blank, then cut
the rest as needed on the Framon..copy as needed..
Now that I think about it, one of the Kwikset factory kits has a set of keys
with only the first (bow) cut. It's not the keying ket #272, it's the one
with the repair parts for the electronic lock(s.) I think it might be #270.
So that means there is a part number for that ring of keys, and more
importantly, that's the factory method for originating that square first
cut. Good luck though. Didja ever try to get factory assistance for the
kwikset? Or descent service from any of the warehouses (for Kwikset?) I
don't care what anybody says about Kwikset, or any brand for that matter.
I'm never discourteous to a customer about their preference. Even if they
are not one of my customers...they can expect courteous, honest advice and
opinion, and, most important, earnest options about who to contact for
professional service. whew!
Can ya tell I'm really hacked off at the Kwikset factory? :)
By the way, I'm a proponent of the Kwikset Titan, or UltraMAX as they call
it now. Sure it's not high security, but it is a great value for what it
is. I will end my KW rant here ;)
there is a local 'wholesaler/distributor for KW.. he wont sell
to me.. I am NOT a hardware store or lumber yard..ergo I cannot
buy from him..
BUT.. my buddy AT a lumber yard was up getting stuff one day and
came back with a present for me..about 30# of precut KW keys..
they just toss them in a box and sell for scrap when it got
full..so he got them.. I am probably good for another 3-4 years
Are KW the best? no.. BUT, they are far BETTER than a LOT of the
'junk' being peddled at the moment..
what I am wondering is, is there NO care on the design patent? I
got hold of 2 chinese clones that are by looks IDENTICAL to KW
locks.. the Tylo knobs..
One of the first attempts to do a Titan first cut, I just used a standard
cutter and made a "V" cut. Live and learn.
Next time I tried to hand file it. Yechht.
After that I got smart and copied off a factory blank for the first cut.
So now I have a set of 6 different Titan keys, each with a different first
cut. On the one hand I was pleased with myself for coming up with the
idea on my own. On the other hand, I was rather disgusted with KW for
coming up with such a PITA for the first cut.
Depends on exactly what the design patent covers (it may just be one or
two details rather than the whole appearance, if they had trouble
claiming the latter), when it runs out (I don't think those were
extended when copyrights got stretched), whether it's worth the effort
On the other hand, I was rather disgusted with KW for
You shouldn't be disgusted with Kwikset for this, the reason they did this
is to allow for cross keying of 5 pin Kwikset with 6 pin Titan. If they had
just added a 6th pin in the 6th position then 5 pin Kwikset locks could not
be pinned to 6 pin Titan keys.
I for one thing the engineering on the Titan was pretty good for such a
cheep lock. They took into account most of the week design flaws of the
original Kwikset line and beefed-up those trouble spots.
When I was working in the 80's for antoher locksmith, we used to
generate a lot of keys for GM, they got lost frequently. I had a
little duplicator, and a power inverter. At the shop I'd cut myself
keys such as 131313 and 313131, so that I could get the key with the
cut where I wanted it, and have both angles. Used round keys for the
cut in the odd space, square for the space in the even.
For example, if I needed a key that was code 533424, I'd use the odd
5 depth key to make the first space. The odd and even 3 keys to make
the next two, and then the even 4 to get the couple of 4s. And then
the odd space 2 depth key to get the last one.
Sure beat hand filing the slope on the left.