Help with beginner lsmithing

For some people this might happen. It takes good 3-D mental imagery plus some other investigation to get the basis for the visual images.

In my experience, most people don't do that successfully - they just wiggle the picks, wiggle, rake, curse, wiggle, ... and don't learn the basics. Sometimes they can get somewhat proficient even without getting at the basics.

I don't think that anyone is saying this can't happen, just that we don't recommend it as a way to start.

Reply to
Henry E Schaffer
Loading thread data ...

First of all, I'm the one who used the word 'disgruntled', not one of the people asking for advice.

I agree that people who ask for free advice shouldn't get angry, but from what I've seen lately it's not the refusal of advice that ticks them (and me) off, but rather the offensive and often insulting tone that accompanies the refusal.

I liken it to ask> > Why is it that people ask for free advice, and then respond with anger when

Reply to
Aegis

That's largely the "didn't you read the FAQ" effect. If people insist on asking a question that a newsgroup's FAQ says is off bounds, getting flamed is a common consequence. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but the reason the question went into the FAQ in the first place is that people were tired of repeatedly answering it.

Asking a quesion that seems to translate directly to "help me be a better thief" likewise tends to draw ridicule. That can often be a matter of how the question is phrased, admittedly.

Copping an attitude also tends to draw an attitude in response, and is the most reliable way to escalate your responses from "Here's why and how you should work with a pro to solve this cheaply and effectively" to "Go pay someone, you bozo."

Related to that: Some folks, here as on all newsgroups, are faster on the trigger than others, on both the security and rudeness axes. If you snap back at them, you tend to make it less likely that others will respond more usefully. If you want help, keep your cool.

(There's a good essay somewhere on the web about how to ask questions in newsgroups in such a way that you're more likely to get useful answers. It's a bit blunt/rude in tone itself, but it makes a lot of good points and is highly recommended reading for anyone who doesn't have extensive experience in dealing with this sort of community.)

Reply to
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam

people insist on

bounds, getting

but the reason

people were

me be a

often be a

response, and is

"Here's why and

effectively" to

are faster on

axes. If you

others will

ask questions in

useful answers.

of good points

have extensive

bIrIQbej" --

nobody gets hurt."

this is a great answer that should be considered to be included in the FAQ for this group..

my2

Reply to
"Key

This keeps coming up and going round and round. Having been on the internet for quite a few years myself I have an opinion or perhaps just an observation.

There is an acronym RTFM (Reade The 'Fine' Manual) that seems to have popularity in circles or programmers when people ask very simple or what they consider stupid questions. I have seen it mutated into RTFF (Read The 'Fine' FAQ) in many newsgroups. It becomes the standard or stock answer in place of repeatedly answering the same quesiton over and over again, not to mention creating threads of conversations discussing the issue over and over ad nausium.

Many times these FAQ's were posted to those newsgroups monthly or with some regularity. The main reason was a little thign called bandwidth which was being protected by many. I can still remember getting flamed for having a signature that was 5 lines long instead of 4. Many pieces of the network had to download every piece of information then upload all the changes that occured on it each night or more often. So bandwidth became this ever-so-critical commodity that people tended to try and protect. Customs of shorter signature blocks, not over quoting posts in reponses, me-too's and other such things developed and FAQ's came out of this as well.

Now that we have entered the WEB,AOL and SPAM age, bandwidth as a commodity seems to no longer exist or at least people are less and less aware of it.

In our case here, we have a FAQ though I don't notice it getting posted to the newsgroup monthly as is the custom of others. So a newbie may come here and lurk for quite some time without seeing the FAQ. Expecially, if he does not know to go to the FAQ's group or what have you.

Perhaps for the sake of civility and in the spirit of preservation of bandwidth we could simply refer FAQ related questions to the FAQ without judgement and such. As well we could avoid long threads of nothing but discussing why we refused to give an answer and so on and so forth.

Something like:

"That is something covered in this newsgroup's FAQ. The FAQ has been painstakingly assembled by the kind volunteers who maintain it. Please read the FAQ before posting questions to the group to make sure your question hasn't already been answered.. The FAQ is located at

formatting link
"

Like everything else this is just my opinion, but I felt it needed to be said. I remember back in '91 when it seemed like every other post was a request for a Master Lock Combination. Point is, the whole atmosphere of reading the newsgroup. As reasoned and insiteful as anti-trolling messages and refusals of secure information requests are, they become tiresome. And some of us still have to download the whole mess wheter or not we decide to delete it or not. Just a thought.

all flames > dev/null

-- Absinthe

Reply to
Absinthe

There are many locks you are not going to be able to efficiently pick. Anyone who claims they can efficiently pick them all all the time is full of it.

How much help were you?

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

There are a ton of lockpicking resources all over the web. Try a search or try the alt.locksmithing FAQ's at:

formatting link
For info and links including where to get the MIT guide to lockpicking.

You will need to know alot more to be half way effective as a locksmith than how to pick locks.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

It's certainly not the best place to start learning. The obvious place to start learning is with general study of locks and their workings. If 99% of the people who come here to ask about picking did that first they would be able to figure out the picking part for themselves.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

Obviously the best way to learn the basics of how locks work is to take a few apart and study them. I could really care less about people wanting to learn picking locks if that's what they want great, but it will not prepare you by any means to do 90% of what is required of a locksmith.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

The confusion of some with regard to many people here's refusal to discuss defeating instructions is possibly related to the FAQ's which on the one hand say that most people here will not provide defeating information or words to that effect, and on the other hand, themselves provide substantial defeating information either directly or indirectly. This would lead most people reading them to believe that discussion of defeating information is appropriate for this group, even if some won't discuss it. JM2C.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

Very little locksmithing information is confidential information. It is disseminated albeit not for free in hundreds if not thousands of texts the vast majority of which are in the public domain.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

This is the tone you will find used all across Usenet when someone posts a question that they could have Googled on and had a plethora of information regarding in about 30 seconds. Go to any technical forum. It's the same across the board. "Lockpicking" typed into Google brings up 35.9K results.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.