Hold and Vary

Anyone had good luck with H and V? For master keying. I ran the
numbers. For Schlage, figuring a two step increment, you got fewer
changes with five pin. But more changes with six pin.
And how do you deal with property managers who take the locks out to
some random place and get the locks keyed to the MK and a couple
random keys out of a shoe box?
I used H2V2 for a padlock master key system many years ago. Ran out of
changes in a hurry.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
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you tell the landlord ALL bets are off if someone gets broke into or robbed.. bad enough with the MK system by itself.. but then add unknown.. wuups..
--Shiva--
Reply to
me
actually IIRR go 2 away from the MK numbers but then you can single step.
MK for instance 35742
then first pin can be a 0 or 1 OR 5,6,7,8, 9 for example.. ditto for rest.. do NOT use single space master pin.. --Shiva--
Reply to
me
That's pretty old school, it has been called Rotating Constant for more than 20 years. Actually, with Schlage you get exactly the same number of CK's in a 4 pin and more with a 5 or 6 pin. You have 4 progressives in each chamber and if you progress 4 and have one constant it ends up 4x4x4x4x5 in a 5 pin lock. BBE.
Storm> > Anyone had good luck with H and V? For master keying. I ran the > numbers. For Schlage, figuring a two step increment, you got fewer > changes with five pin. But more changes with six pin. > > And how do you deal with property managers who take the locks out to > some random place and get the locks keyed to the MK and a couple > random keys out of a shoe box? > > I used H2V2 for a padlock master key system many years ago. Ran out of > changes in a hurry. > > -- > > Christopher A. Young > You can't shout down a troll. > You have to starve them. > .
Reply to
Billy B. Edwards Jr.
If you do that with Schlage you will have rampant interchange, that's why they have multiplex key systems. BBE.
snipped-for-privacy@notanywhere.net wrote: > > > > >Anyone had good luck with H and V? For master keying. I ran the > >numbers. For Schlage, figuring a two step increment, you got fewer > >changes with five pin. But more changes with six pin. > actually IIRR go 2 away from the MK numbers but then you can > single step. > > MK for instance 35742 > > then first pin can be a 0 or 1 OR 5,6,7,8, 9 for example.. > ditto for rest.. do NOT use single space master pin.. > --Shiva-- > >
Reply to
Billy B. Edwards Jr.
This is the problem, the masterkeying capabilities of the cylinder are being overloaded. And worse still, if shop A accepts the job only on the basis that 6 pin cylinders or existing plugs replaced with mulitplex plugs etc, and shop B is happy to work with the existing cylinders, then shop A loses a customer.
I heard a case where an offive building was refurbished for student accommodation, and the masterkey system as supplied was on the limits of its capability. Possibly the owner accepted this, wanting to save up front capital, or the owner was ignorant. Possibly too there was insufficient time to order a manufacturer supplied multiplex system.
This leaves the poor locksmith with a 'downstream' problem, either advise a replacement or do undesirable things like single stepping.
Reply to
peterwn
yep.. I got 5 school building, and NO pinning codes, PLUS 1 building has 3 internal masterkeys on 3 different brands of locks. I didnt do ANY of them from scratch-the builders did.. but didnt get/keep/supply the pinning chart.. 120 or so doors per building for 4 of them, and close to 200 on the 5th. a pure nightmare and BTW, these WERE single stepped, as far as I have seen
--Shiva--
Reply to
me
Regardless of whether rotating constants increases or reduces the number of available differs, its use reduces the number of spacers and hence reduces the number of 'ghost' keys that can operate a cylinder. A 3 / 6 constant has 6 possible ghost keys only (excluding master and change) compared with 62 for a 6 spacers. All these 'ghost' keys are partial masterkeys, so the fewer spacers used the suite is more secure.
This would presumably have helped manufacturers to get the most use from their keyways at a time when the cost of broaches would have been horrendous (presumably computer operated machine tools have now significantly reduced the cost of broaches and milling wheels), since they would want to minimise the probability of a stray key from one suite being found to operate cylinders from another suite especially as it is almost certainly an incidental partial masterkey for that suite.
Reply to
peterwn

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