Frustrated Landlord

Ottawa Canada

You can get your building master-keyed by your friendly locksmith but your master key will not work if the tenent has changed the locks.

Write into your lease a no lock changing without written permission of the landlord clause and if they do change the locks, deduct the cost of a locksmith visit to change them back from their security deposit.

You may wish to install good quality locks on the suites to keep the tenents happy their stuff inside is safe.

Not sure if Medico high-security locks can be master-keyed or not.

Good luck.

Brian Jeremiah ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) writes:

If there was an easy key/tool that will open all the rekeyed/replaced locks, they wouldn't be locks.

Another alternative to Brian's suggestions: You could insist that, if they rekey the place, they leave an emergency key with you inside a tamper-proof box (these are avaialble fairly cheaply). You promise not to use that key except in genuine emergencies, and the box provides proof that you haven't done so. At the end of the lease you hand back the box, they check that it's the one they signed (and recorded the number of), they break it open and confirm that their key is still inside, and everyone is happy.

If you *do* need emergency access, you tell 'em that you went in and why, and the key goes into a new box.

Basically, this provides the reassurance for both of you of being able to prove that that someone isn't breaking into your office and borrowing the spare keys for a bit of looting; if the box is intact, any entry didn't occur via that copy of the key.

(The flip side is that if you can't produce the still-sealed box on demand, they may be able to accuse you of negligance. So you want to store these securely, and preferably store the info about which key opens which apt. FAR away from the keys themselves -- ideally in encrypted form.)

Also you'll need to remember to have your master key! Another risk is that you'll *really* need to keep that master key from getting out - or you may face really serious problems resulting from that.

As a locksmith and a landlord I can relate. As far as tenants forgetting to give you a key after changing the locks about the only thing you can do is to deduct the locksmithing fees from their security deposit.

As to the issue of forgetting the key, or losing the key, or failing to label it correctly, there are several options. If all your properties have compatable locks, you can set up a masterkey system and then you will only need to carry one key on your ring. This will facilitate you gaining access when you need to. The way this needs to be done is to convert all your properties to one brand of lock, and then everytime you have a vacancy you can swap out a set of masterkeyed locks for the others and then bring the takeoffs to the locksmith to set up for the next vacancy.

The next step is to set up a key box with keys properly tagged and marked. Your locksmith can help by stamping a code number on each key and providing a sheet to log the keys on.

The down side to this plan is you have to buy a bunch of hardware to replace the incompatable locks. Sometimes you can get special cylinders so you can use your master key on an incompatable lock.

I have keys all over the

One other idea is to get yourself some locking key boxes that you can keep keys to each unit secured near each unit. This way you can always have a proper key at hand. You might want to get a few of these anyway, this way your busy locksmith can make a set of keys and lock them in your box and you don't have to hang around all day waiting for the locksmith to show up.

Change your lease agreements... Either remove their right to change the locks (which means, upon request, YOU must do so) or have them use a locksmith approved by you (approval = giving you the bitting). Lots of ways to hit it from that angle, but you need to remind them that the clause is in the contract. Doesn't guarantee that they won't still just get rekeyed on their own, but then again...

Anyway; just a thought.

Here's a thought that I didn't see mentioned. Why not put in IC. Then you will not need the bitting, or a key to them at all, just the control key and once cylinder that you do have a key to. If they feel they would like the locks changed (due to lost lent key etc) you or a maintenance man could perform that for them, and your locksmith can then later change that cylinder to a new key for the next time you need one.

Jeremiah:

First off --

1.) What type of building or buildings are we talking about here ???

If they are in multiple separate locations you should have a different master key system for each separate location rather than one for everything...

If it is all in one building you could appeal to the safety safe of your tenants' personalities, and tell them that you are establishing a master key system so that emergency life safety personnel (such as the fire department) can gain access to all the units in an emergency... Fire or medical emergencies... I have not seen many large buildings that haven't had some type of "knox box" near the main doorway or fire alarm box to hold keys for the fire department...

2.) What type of locks do you have installed now ???

Even if they are all compatable and can be keyed into a system together, what condition are they in ??? Are they 5-pin or 6-pin ??? This would be an invest ment in your own personal sanitiy here so you should get all brand new COMMERCIAL grade locks with at least a 6-pin cylinder...

3.) You DO NOT need to buy super security locks... Brian suggested here in the newsgroup that you go out and spend money on Medeco locks... That just multiplies the expense of master-keying your apartments... (It costs WAY more) And it only adds a layer of protection against re-keying, it won't stop one of your tenants from taking that very expensiove lock out of the door and replacing it with the one they just bought at Home Depot... As far as re-keying is concerned AFTER you master key your buildings this should put your concerns to rest:

ALOA Technical Standards Policy Item # 10: When master keying is encountered, then the key presented without its corresponding master key is presumed to be a subordinate key until otherwise determined. An attemot must be made to determine the holder of the master key and seek authorization for cylinder changes or key origination before such service.

Any honest, qualified locksmith will follow that standard and seek out the owner of the property before they change anything about the lock... And finding you is made easier when you invest in a sign that describes who the owner of the porperty is that you put up in some readily viewable place...

4.) I would not use Joe's advice (it is ok advice if you only have one or two units) because in order for that idea to work you would have to keep all those sealed boxes with the keys inside of them with you in order for them to be of any use... Unless you have a VERY secure place to keep them handy at each location...

5.) I agree that you need to change the language of your lease agreements... Check with an attorney to see what language would be allowable under Georgia state law... But in the end, it is YOUR property so you do have the right to require tenants to provide you with a key, or compel them to use your master keyed locks. The law allows landlords and property owners access to units in case of 'emergency' but also to do periodic inspections of the property to ensure that everything is safe and in good working order... (Especially things like smoke detectors and hot water heaters and furnaces and the like, the kinds of things tenants could report you to various governmental authorities and get you in trouble if they are not working properly...)

It is my experience (working in a complex of commerical office buildings) that tenants will often rekey things inside of thier units and simply move out and NOT care if they left the correct keys behind 9 times out of 10... Only if they have some sort of financial incentive do they ever pay attention to handing over all of the keys...

6.) Roger's idea is a good one, but rather than having an extra lock around to install yourself you should simply call your locksmith out to re-key the locks on site before the new lease goes into effect... This is a more beneficial way to do it for these reasons:

a. You now have a locksmith's bill for service that you can keep for your files to PROVE that you re-keyed the locks should a legal dispute ever arise over that fact... b. The locksmith installs and re-keys locks day in and day out, I am not saying that you aren't skilled enough to do this yourself, but you are involving rental property and liability into the equation so leave it to the professsionals who are knowledgeable and insured in the event anything ever went wrong...

I hope that the above comments can help you in some way... I am not a 'professional' locksmith, only a maintenance worker who has some knowledge in that particular area... Good luck with your problem...

Evan the Maintenance Man

This one is a no brainer. By the time you add up the costs of hardware for

25 units you will have exceeded the amount the landlord is paying for annual locksmith charges by a factor of at least 10. Then when you consider the price of cores, pinning, and all other charges the landlord will incur, the only thing you will hear is the sound of the slamming behind the landlord on the way out of your shop.

Ottawa Canada

One way to slow down tenents changing the door locks is to use tamper-resisting screws to hold the lockset in place.

A no lock changing without written permission of the landlord clause in the lease is also helpful and if they do change the locks you can deduct the cost of changing them back from their security deposit.

Brian

So you are trying to say it is prohibitively expensive? :)

I was suggesting a solution, not necessarily a cheap one, but viable none the less.

Just trying to add to the mix of ideas. I saw medeco suggested, which woudl incur a fair amount of cost as well.

a. You now have a locksmith's bill for service that you can keep for your files to PROVE that you re-keyed the locks should a legal dispute ever arise over that fact...

b. The locksmith installs and re-keys locks day in and day out, I am not saying that you aren't skilled enough to do this yourself, but you are involving rental property and liability into the equation so leave it to the professsionals who are knowledgeable and insured in the event anything ever went wrong...

Key -- you would have locks laying around that you brought to a locksmith shop and on YOUR word put on a certain door... The way I described doing it you have a bill for on location service that the locks on a given door were re-keyed... There is no doubt as to the location of the locks in question... Having it ON PAPER from a third party that locks on Unit X at

123 Any Street were rekeyed is much better to rely upon than your word that 'locks re-keyed in shop' were put on the door by yourself...

As far as locks not being brain surgery to install, I have seen some very odd installations... I am also not so sure that every landlord understands all of the applicable life safety codes as they apply to locking devices on rental housing units... A locksmith would have some understanding of such things...

Evan the Maintenance Man

'Restricted' Master key system is your answer. Only you can authorise the changing of the lock combinations and keys to be made to the system with the 'originating' Locksmith. The keys cannot be duplicated by any other key cutter or Locksmith except your own Smithy, and then only with your written and signed authorisation form.

as a locksmith with about 18 years in the trade, I reply: No. There is no one device which will open all apartments. At least not without damage.

Master keying does make your life some what easier, but isn't a cure all.

Yes. Actually, I've done it several times.

IC door knobs- $200 or more each? list is $300...PLUS

plus cores, etc...

agree, WAY too expensive, UNLESS the building was being built NEW.

--Shiva--

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there is nothing to chanllenge the landlords word if he can proove what he said he has done. the landlord can always have their tenet sign a dated form stating exactly what secu rity work was performed on whatever location.

seen some very

agree, so have I. I was talking about swapping the exact same brand lock that comes off the door. if brand X came off a door then the same rekeyed brand X will go back on the door. I am giving the landlord some credit as to having some mechanical ability.

locking devices on

agree... the landlord should know "the applicable life safety codes" if he plans on running an up & up rental business.

agree..

Yeah, I just looked up some prices too. Well, maybe he is rich!!! :-)

What about something with a non-standard backset? Or something that can't be swapped out easily or cheaply? I liked the idea of tamper resistant screws, but if they call a lockie out to change the locks many will carry tamper bits, I know I do. Point being that you can "forbid" changing the locks, but that is just legal footing, as it still doesn't help when you show up with your master key and it doesn't work because they swapped the knob for something else or added a deadbolt :)

I guess if one goes with a controlled keyway/lock medeco/assa/whatever that should be a red flag to the lockie when he shows up to replace it.

But what would it take, for you to see, when you were called out to do a rekey/replacement, on the door that would make you say "I'm not going to replace this?" Perhaps an engraved message like "No Unauthorized Service without Landlord Present please call 555-5555 before performing any locksmithing service on this door" with some vague threat about a lawsuit :)

Ottawa Canada

The tamper-resistent screws and maybe a strange backset will help prevent the tenent from changing the lock themselves.

Of course they can install a brand new door but most tenents are pretty cheap and just want to change the door lock.

Brian

"Abs> Yeah, I just looked up some prices too. Well, maybe he is rich!!! :-) >