Thoughts about corrective action to bumping?

Hello,
Since we are trying to get back on track...
I'm interested in the groups feedback on how they would approach
correcting a clients lock bumping concerns.
Lets say a property managment company has 10 leased buildings with
lots of perimeter doors, and inner shared lobby suite entrances.
They are using Schlage E keyway mortise locks throughout the location.
Someone has been gaining access to the buildings and suites, but so
far has only taken a few random items.
Many of the locks have a small "rectangular depression" above the
keyway and the customer is convinced bumping has occurred, and that
this will become a big problem soon. The police report submitted by
one of the tenants indicated there was no clear sign of forced entry.
The customer has discussed the issue with his director, but they
simply repeat they have a tight operating budget this year.
You are concerned about losing a good repeat customer if they perceive
you were not forthcoming and unbiased. (Yes, yes I know you would tell
them the truth about their options, and the cost just is what it
is...)
Can/should the current cylinders be preserved, or is the best approach
to promote upgrading them?
Reply to
Bogus
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Oh yea...
The manufacturer provides no warranties, either expressed or implied, for any direct or indirect losses related to the use of their products!
Reply to
Bogus
The depression is normal from the operation of the lock. I've seen enough of em. As for bumping, well, my first thought is mushroom or spool drivers.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
That's a cheerful ray of sunshine to inject into the matter.
Going for the thread drift record, has anyone out there tried the TeraLux conversion for a 2AA mini mag? I got one, and just totally love it.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
ASSUMING, that everything is master keyed, EITHER its an 'inside job' OR someone has got a copy of the master.
I NEVER if at all possible, have the master open the outside door. makes people carry 2 keys, but-so what.. lose the master-they probably got the OS door too, change the OS door by itself for security reasons. --Shiva--
Reply to
me
I got a similar conversion from another company, FAR better in daylight than previous. --Shiva--
Reply to
me
Yes, I have the 3 LED version, and its makes the original pale by comparison <sorry>.
Batteries last about 4 times longers, but I lost the ability to focus the beam...
Reply to
Bogus
The case was hypothetical, for solution approaches and general input. If you bump a lock open several times, it can cut slightly into the finish beyond the appearance of normal wear. When trying a rubber edge buffer it splits it apart after a few uses...plastic was a bit more effective.
Also, LAB recently discontinued their serrated pins, they do not seem to impair bumping, but did create a nuisance for shimming.
The mushrooms and spool drivers seem to make it more difficult if you use 3 or 4 of them on the longest bottom pin chambers.
I wonder if this might lead to new retrofit pin designs down the road? and gravel was strewn onto the path of fame and fortune-go for it!
Reply to
Bogus
The case was hypothetical, for solution approaches and general input. If you bump a lock open several times, it can cut slightly into the finish beyond the appearance of normal wear...
Agreed, the perimeter should be a separate system unless the mechanical locks simply backup access control for emergencies and no staff get a key (gov bldgs for example). Often special areas such as payroll, finance, HR etc. could be other separate restricted systems.
Reply to
Bogus
I got one of the Opalec ones when it first came out. About $28. Beats having bulbs silvered, and then blown.
Walmart has the Nite Ize conversion for about $4.92. LIke you say the batteries last longer. But no focuss. And it's a blue haze, not the crisp white.
TeraLux has a totally white light.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
Why not try a depth of .190, which would be just a little less than a 10 pin(if there was one for Schlage). With just one of these in a combination, I believe that most bump keys would lift the bottom pin over the shear line and thus making it bump-proof. The 'E' keyway should just barely allow this deeper cut and still be able to lift the pin with broaching. WOrth a try....
Reply to
rifnraf
Lab has not discontinued the S pins, they are available in kit form. They do not at present offer individual refills, but the kits are available. Call them and ask, I did.
Those adept at bumping can open the lock before the rubber splits and I have found that the use of serrated pins and/or spools do not prevent bumping although they do make it a little more difficult. Where a lock might take 3-4 attempts without spools, they increase resistance to the point that it may take 9-10 attempts. Lest you think that would be sufficient, the increase equates to mere seconds, not minutes.
Undoubtedly there are improvements in the works. If you check patent office applications you will find they started being filed around the beginning of last year. BBE.
Reply to
Billy B. Edwards Jr.
The matter of course is one of helping a customer solve a problem.
The customer's concern is understandable, the customer is very concerned that a security failure will lead to very serious problems, but on the other hand does not want to make a significant expenditure on upgrading cylinders if the problem is not one of 'bumping'.
The most obvious question is what is the state of key control. If the cylinders are on an 'open' profile and the current keying is several years old, it would appear that a false or lost key is more likely to be the problem than bumping. Questions to ask would be if any untrustworthy employees had access to the masterkey, whether there has been a practice of loaning masterkeys to contractors or suite occupiers, has management acquiesed to any employees or contractors holding masterkeys, for maskerkeys known to be lost was an assessment made of the likelihood of them falling into wrong hands. After going through this with a client, the answer may become pretty obvious that a re-key at least is necessary.
The second question is - have the cylinders really been 'bumped' - there may be other evidence apart from the impression above the keyway - I woud not know, perhaps others can enlighten.
Even if there is some suspicion remains, There could stilll be an economical solution. Are the locks to the invidual suites tied to the building system? If so the answer could be to start a 'parallel' system of high security cylinders (in the USA situation and if bumping is a potential worry this pretty well means Medeco, in Australia & New Zealand Bi-lock, and in Europe various types such as EVVA) and offer them to occupants who feel they have a particular security need. If the suites are tenanted it could be on a cost share basis, if owner-occupied then the occupier should be asked to meet the total cost.
Somewhere there is an apartment block where one only apartment has a Medeco lock. Is served its purposes when private investigators wanted to get into the apartment, but not completely - the PI's apparently bribed the super (probably now the ex super) to let them have a brief peek inside the apartment.
Reply to
peterwn
Bogus, One of the first things that come to mind with me is springs. I have uncapped brand new mortise cylinders to find that the springs were of an inferior size and quality, strung out, or in some cases totally "pancaked".
I think they may have saved 2 cents per hundred.
Whereas the springs in my pinning kit are somewhat longer and seem to have more tension. A stiffer spring will not give so much when the bump is done-creates alot smaller shearline-or gap.
Emailed you something else but you might not have gotten it.
My2, Later, goma.
Reply to
goma865
I noticed this as well.,The stock springs are more fluid, yielding and supportive to the kinetic energy transfer, but denser springs (MajorMfg tangle resistant springs) almost stopped the technique on their own.
I agree that using better springs, and actually tailoring the driver lengths to the loaded chamber pins (as oposed to using all short drivers) makes a huge difference!
Combining the above with a few spool pins on the shorter load chambers appeared to be most effective during testing.
Definitely a "going forward consideration" for future projects where sdebars are not involved...
The down side, is unloading all drivers during future rekeys to prevent overloading a chamber. I do this now for rekeys where I was not the orignator and the cylinder is not factory new, since some folks use a reversed bottom pin in one chamber as their signature. This will be my standard practice now to prevent issues.
BTW: The email address is 'bogus', I'll send you a proper email lead.
-David
Reply to
Bogus

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