PING somesmartass.

Mr. Smartass,
I have been a lurker here for some time, posting only rarely.
I am a simple and lowly tow truck driver, lol, who also has responsibility
for title documentation, seizure, and sale or disposal of vehicles. I feel
that this gives me a legitimate and compelling interest in defeating
automotive ignition locks, without damaging the column. But I am not a
member of the Secret Squirrel Society, and I never will be.
I am only interested in ignition locks. I truly do not give a shit about
door locks, since the AirWedge and The Big Easy give me quick access to
almost all vehicles, usually in under 15 seconds. But then again, I do it
everyday. It may take the untrained locksmith as much as 45 seconds or
more, assuming he was willing to unprofessionally bypass the lock by working
through the doorjam, LOL. For this service, most operators charge 50
dollars. Or less. Its good to be able to provide a service like this
economically, without screwing around inside the keyway or inside the
doorshell. Because lots of people accidently lock their infants inside
running cars, especially in cold weather. And, trust me, thats not a good
time to pull out a fistful of picks, squat in the snow, an' put yer eye up
to the lock. LOL.
Because my employer sweeps up all makes and models, in direct proportion to
market share, I need a reliable and economic way to make rough keys quickly
to see if a car cranks, starts, and runs without problem. In this way, a lot
of cars that now get junked can be returned to service to people who need
them and are willing to buy.
I have tried impressioning, and it is more difficult than it looks. Amateur
jiggle keys are ok for some cars, especially Chrysler products it seems, but
I need a broader solution.
I have read with great interest your comments on the Force Tool and bypass
key, and I am considering purchase of same. I am also considering the
purchase of an otoscope, to read the ignition pins after (or before)
removal. Professional sets of try-keys are also an option - I have seen
locksmiths use them on the lot - but I need a full set for a large
population of auto makes, and that could be expensive.
In short, I am looking for a cheap way to quickly evaluate motor vehicles,
given that I have a high volume (MINIMUM 12 per month) with relatively few
that have real market value. I have hammered a locksmith down to 45 dollars
a car, but even at that, I most often say "screw it, save the 45" when it
comes to a decision, because so many cars are simply junk.
So locksmiths are out of the picture, period, except as a desperation move.
I have greatly enjoyed your past postings, and I look forward to any help or
advice you may offer to me.
Thanks.
Reply to
marty
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OK, a REPO man.. a 'necessary service' unfortunately in this day and age..
I work for a car lot that at times, repos 20 cars a month, BY THEMSELVES.. and it costs them to have it 'seized' 300 per
its available.. IF you want the LOCK TO TURN, without damage...
ehh- maybe save your money...
to read the ignition pins after (or before)
not necessarily...
payback could be covered in- (at a dozen a month) 2, maybe 3 months
you got an email coming..assuming you got a good addy
--Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--
Why not cull the junk cars untill you have an ignition switch (not the lock) for each manufacturer? Then all you would need to do would be to unplug the ignition switch, plug in your switch and start the car. You wouldn't unlock the stearing or the shifter, but you could at least start the car.
By the way, how much per day do you charge to store a car for a day?
Reply to
Roger Shoaf
He doesn't store them... He gets a call (fax) from a bank which contains the info on the vehicle to be repossesed and the owner (with hopefully a current address). Then he goes and gets it... and if he's like I was, I'd drop the car off in the bank's parking lot.
The fun part is FINDING the car... (lost some sleep more than once following guys from their house to their "friends" house where the car was parked)
Reply to
Aegis
Well I have worked as a finance adjuster, (Repo man) and I agree that the tricky part is finding the car.
However Marty was pretty clear about his job, to wit:
"I am a simple and lowly tow truck driver, lol, who also has responsibility for title documentation, seizure, and sale or disposal of vehicles."
Further he describes:
"Because my employer sweeps up all makes and models, in direct proportion to market share, I need a reliable and economic way to make rough keys quickly to see if a car cranks, starts, and runs without problem. In this way, a lot of cars that now get junked can be returned to service to people who need them and are willing to buy."
Repo cars are not generally sold by the repo company, they are usually returned to the dealer or delivered to an auction.
I submit that Marty is a tow truck driver that does police impounds and perhaps private property towing.
Reply to
Roger Shoaf
I submit that "smartass" and "judgejackass" has a strong possibility of being the same person given the similarity of screen names AND that "judgejackass" seems to be the ONLY one encouraging the off the wall posting by "smartass".
Reply to
MThomas859
Doubt it. Marty has posted on and off here for a while always AFAIK as Marty although maybe from a couple emails or pseudo emails. My money says he's just what he says a tow truck driver looking for info to make his job simpler and cheaper, it's hard to blame him for that. As I remember he initially asked about 'master keys' or 'tryout keys' or something but basically really wanted snake picks or jigglers. How did those work out for you Marty? Hope your lucks better than mine has ever been. No flame just wondering.
Reply to
Putyourspamhere
"judgejackass"
lol. smartass really has u guys in a knot. lol.
I am exactly what I say, as at least one of you knows, to whom i have given my business phone for confirmation.
And yes I did ask about a host of things including jiggle keys and impressioning, neither of which have really paid the bonus i expected.
I spent about a hundred bucks for impressioning equipment, that is two swiss-cut files and a grip/vice made by Framon. I worked repeatedly on a 78 Chevy pickup, and cannot honestly say that I ever saw a single mark left by the polishing action of a pin. And I even knew where to look, since I had a working key for this vehicle. I went through 5 or 6 blanks, no joy.
Hoping a mark would show, I tried different things on the key, from a very fine gun powder (dont ask, it was convenient - 'nuff said) to auto grease. And having gunked up the works with grease, I then proceeded to shoot WD40 down the keyway, to clean it up.
And it was then, with that mass of shit in the keyway, that I finally saw *something* when I withdrew my last and final key. There, quite clearly in this explosive slurry that now coated my blank, I saw on the side of the key several dark parallel lines running perpendicular to the major axis of the blank. They appeared to have the right spacing according to my info on this ignition, but they were offset way too far from the shoulder, and did not line up with where the pins actually were (as indicated by micrometer measurement, as well as by my working key.)
So I didnt know what in the hell I was looking at, at that point, and I still couldnt tell ya. I have shelved the effort temporarily, and when I resume I will probably mark the blanks with ink, or a fluorescent dye, although this seems of limited value if I "knife-edge" the blank, as is recommended. So I may be approaching an impass with impressioning, and I am looking for other approaches.
The bottom line is, I need keys to sell junk. I have buyers for the junk, but I cant afford a locksmith. Period. Its not that I dislike you guys, I just cant afford you. Its economics. Plain and simple.
Now, I am not Smartass. But when smartass started posting, I learned a hell of lot more from him than anything I have read from any of you. Certainly, nobody here owes me an education. But while I understand all the good reasons for secrecy, I need to learn how to make cheap keys. And *thats* going to happen. Sooner or later.
And I make no secret about wanting to goad Smartass into divulging as much information as he feels comfortable divulging. He is willing to talk, and instruct. Wherease the rest on this ng seem not so forthcoming. Consequently, my sympathies lie with him.
No, sadly, I am NOT smartass, if thats what some of you are implying. I AM more like Evan the Tampon Man. Hell, I just confessed that I coat my key blanks with gunpowder and grease. LOL.
And that, now, is exactly who I am, exactly what I have done, and exactly what my intentions are. I am not likely to be drawn into a flame war. But I am not above exploiting one to gain a little info.
Reply to
marty
I can only get keys to mark that are brass, and sometimes they have to be tilted at a good angle to see a damn thing. if I had to work with harder blanks I probably would try his idea of holding them in flame to coat them with carbon.
Reply to
fugi
Impressioning is at least as difficult as picking -- many would say more difficult. Don't expect to develop that skill without spending many, many, MANY hours on it and burning through lots of key blanks while you figure out what you're doing.
The upside of impressioning is that it's one way of getting a working key without having to disassemble the lock. There are other ways, for some locks. As always, half the battle is understanding the exact characteristics of the lock you're working with.
What you're paying a locksmith for is knowledge and specialized tools and the hours invested in learning to take advantage of both. If you want to develop the skills yourself, you're going to have to make a similar (nontrivial) investment. You may find that hiring the skills is actually more cost-effective than developing them yourself, especially since that's time you could be investing in other parts of your job.
Reply to
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam
You can't impression a 78 Chevy truck. The locks have side bars. The side bar withdraws into the grooves in the side if the wafers when the right key is inserted and clears the shear line allowing the plug to turn.
Reply to
Glen Cooper
"fugi" snipped-for-privacy@ultra.bl.org> wrote in message
I probably would try his idea of holding them
Yes ! now your on the right track. Use a candle, and while smoking up the blade, drip some of the hot wax into the keyway. This will coat the tips of the tumblers so they will leave a wax dimple on the top of the blade. Also, a 'HAIR DRYER' set to HIGH, will enable you to keep the wax soft and pliable, long enough to work your blank in and out. Sorry Secret Squirrels, but I think Mr frigi deserves a break.
Reply to
Steve Paris
That's kind of what I expected. I have never had any great success with them either.
The 78 chevy pickup uses sidebar locks. They can't be impressioned in the usual manner. The sidebar does not exert pressure on the wafer when you bind it so the wafers don't mark the key. This is true of doors and ignition. There's a book by Hank Spicer on impressioning them with a special technique.
Just use the blank. You were trying on the wrong kind of lock.
Try a pre 86 or later in the case of the trucks and some other vehicles, Ford that still uses the old 5 pin lock they will be fairly easy.
It does sound like a recipe for some kind of improvised plastic explosive. Fire it with a #8 and it would probably be good for stump removal. :).
Try just a blank with the business edge smoothed on a lock that WILL impression.
To find out if a 78 Chevy truck runs: Apply +12V to the Bat terminal of the HEI coil. There are only two wires max one terminal is Tach and the other batt. Make sure fuel is getting to the carb. Run a jumper wire to the terminal on the starter that the little wire goes to "s" I believe. Apply +12V long enough to crank the engine and see if you can get it to start. If it runs good tear down the column ( a 10 minute job max) remove the ignition lock put it in gear and test the trans if all goes good there is probably a code on the ignition lock to make the key take it to a locksmith or subscribe to a code service, or just buy a new ignition lock they are about 12 bucks retail. These instructions are good for pretty much any HEI (BIG Distributor) equipped GM i.e. 78-85 or 86 with a carb. As a tow truck driver you could also make a deal with a GM dealer or somebody in parts. Towing in exchange for code lookup for GM cars. Take the code to the locksmith and get the keys cut for a flat key by code price that doesn't include any tear down.
Reply to
Putyourspamhere
It won't work. The pins on a pin tumbler or wafers on a wafer lock will rub off the carbon as you insert and withdraw the key. The carbon/soot thing only works for warded locks.
Reply to
Putyourspamhere
One of the biggest challenges of the world is knowing when a technique does NOT work. This should have been detailed in the very pricey instructions book you got with your very pricey two files and a vise grip.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
ROFL! It's no wonder your impressioning efforts aren't working. For best results, the cylinder should be dry. I don't like knife edging. Just use the file to give the key a shinney surface. If you haven't read it, go to
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It should prove instructive. It's not a skill that you can read about and have it down, so don't stop your efforts. Keep trying and eventually you'll see improvements. Also, even with the developed skill, there are some locks that can't be impressioned. (IE Sidebars - lots of automotive locks employ this design.) Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us:
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Reply to
MThomas859
I submit that the paranoia has begun. Soon you will begin wondering if Im not one of your little secret squirrel buddies gone beserk.
Reply to
somesmartass

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