Safe Listening Device

For what it's worth, I haven't used a listening device yet. But I admit to being a beginner in this area. I'm also uncomfortable discussing this topic with strangers or on an open forum; I'd suggest you take the question to one of the locksmith-only discussions. (Or spring for some training material.)

1. turn OPPOSITE direction, and as you get near 50, 'feel' for a VERY SLIGHT bump.. DO NOT TURN FAST..(you are not trying to 'spin a top')

keep turning for at least 5 complete turns

you either got 3 got 4 bumps.. (or should) that is the number of wheels.

if you arent sure, REPEAT, but start in the opposite direction from #1 above.

safe has a separate handle?? from the dial? try turning the handle, and while holding SLIGHT pressure on the handle, see if the dial gets harder to turn? IF SO, you do NOT need a 'listening device'

--Shiva--

It's far more a visual and tactile skill than and auditory one. A listening device is probably going to be a waste of time. It will certainly be a waste of time if you don't know what you're listening for. You cannot directly hear of feel the gates in the wheels. You have to derrive them from very small changes in the contact points as felt and read on the dial. As far as number of wheels you can tell by listening w/o any device or feeling as the driver picks up each consecutive wheel when you turn the dial.

It is a double door safe, with a handle for each door. Pressure on the handles does not affect the pressure of the nose on the drive cam, nor the fence on the wheels. I have already tried to "feel" the flys, and have been successful for the first two or so, but after that the wheel pack becomes "heavy", and it is diffacult to discern if I am picking up more wheels. Additionally (as odd as this may sound), the wheel pack will become very heavy after maybe 5 turns (very suddenly) and nowheres near where I parked the wheels (ie at 50).

It is interesting you bring this up. I have talked to many people who feel that a listening device is of no use, however others indicate that it can be quite helpful. I understand the entire methodolgy of finding the contact points, charting the changes etc, however any advice on how to "feel" the contact points, or how to practiace (I am in the progress of obtaining a combo lock, most likely a S&G 6730) besides using an "open" lock would be appreciated.

you want a listening device.. talk to Lockmasters.. they have a nice tool, but its about $2-3 grand?

if this is a 'recent' Mosler, meaning say from 50's and newer, you are in for some fun time.. If this is a 1R lock, you will find it fun to drill and thats about the only way.

--Shiva--

It is NOT a recent Mosler (prolly late 1800's to early 20-30's). I was looking at "Lock-Amp Amplifier" from Lockmasters, its only $125ish, supposedly designed by Miller himself. Anybody have an experience with this product?

I think I have a somewhat similar.. and do not think its going to help you that much..

the dial binding up is NOT a good thing to happen.. I would drill THROUGH the dial ring.. its repairable.

--Shiva--

... would be outside the scope of this newsgroup, as far as I'm concerned.

About a decade ago, a friend of mine let me try is listening device. From Lockmasters, looked like a Walkman with a magnet on the back, and two microphones, also magnetic.

It did a terrific job. If you've got a paying customer, and expect to use it a second time, the one I used was really great.

OTOH, you m ight never use it again in your life.

It seldom does.

You should be able to feel the contact points easily on a non-manipulation resistant lock. As long as you understand that the contact point does not refer directly to a gate position on a wheel only to the nose contacting the drive cam at either side of the drop in position. The contact point in and of itself tells you nothing. By reading the dial position of the contact point with the wheels in incrementally varrying positions you can SOMETIMES determine if the fence is aligned with a gate. Manipulation does not work in practice on all locks even if they are theoretically vulnerable to it.

Thanks to everyone for all their advice. I have managed to locate a list of Mosler SN's online