Three Questions

Is it a Mortice or cylinder type.

In fact you can often improvise this from a fishhook, or from a sufficiently narrow jigsaw/saber-saw blade.

The trick that Jim didn't mention is that if the broken off piece is deep enough in the lock, you may need to lift pins out of the way as you slide it back. Often that means having a second tool in the lock. Not usually all that hard, but you do have to be moderately coordinated.

There are fancier broken-key extractors. They cost more. Some of them do work better. Whether they're worth it depends in part on how often you expect to do this.

You push it past theh obstruction turn it slightly and pull the

A coping saw or scroll saw blade will work to remove broken keys if you don't get too heavy handed. Break it off so the teeth go out to the end and point back towards you.

Leon Rowell

Steve wrote:

More below.

Well the good news is I got the broken piece out. The bad news is I also managed to get to the pins and the springs which all fell out. I'll probably just go and put new locks in but is there a way to figure out how to put the pins back in? This stuff really interests me which leads me back to my 3rd question.

I wrote The Association of Ontario Locksmiths (TAOL) to ask about correspondence courses and they gave me the number of a group called Direct Education. I called them but found out that they are based in the States and I was hoping to find something a bit more local to Ontario. I also felt that the salesperson I was talking to was way to anxious to get my first payment which left me a bit uncomfortable. I really don't know which school would be the best to go with so I was hoping that someone here might have some experiance with one.

If anyone has any knowledge of a reputable correspondence school, would you pass that on to me please? I really have a genuine interest in this field.

Again, thank you for your help.

springs which all

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3rd question.

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maybe these links will help ? g'day

... I don't really see how you did that unless you took the lock apart. If you did since you obviously don't have a plug follower and it is apart anyway do it this way: Insert the key in the plug. If the broken key was your only key you'll have to get a copy made of the peices. The pins with the tapered ends are the key pins. The taper goes down toward the key. Long pins with deep cuts short pins with shallow cuts put the pins in the plug so that they are all flush. Slide the plug into the cylinder. Pop off the stamped part on top that retains the springs and stops them from flying out the top. The pins that are left are the drivers. Load them into the pin wells in the cylinder one by one. Turn the plug with the key a couple times to make sure it all works smooth. Put the springs back in. Put the cover back on. You can also just get a key blank and use a file to cut a key to any pinning combo you want with the existing pins you have. Avoid having any very deep cuts right next to any very shallow ones. Make sure you file the key so the cuts are shaped like \ / (only with shallower angles) not like l l.

It sounds like you removed the plug. That's not as bad as it seems.

has drawings of locks. Use that as a reference.

Assumption: this is a deadbolt or doorknob in the US; your post sounds like a pin-tumbler variety.

To find out which pins go where... You'll want to start by putting a good key in the plug's slot. Examine the pins. Chances are that you'll have 10 or 12 of them. If you have an odd number less than 10, you've lost some. If an odd number more than 10, you may have pins for a master keyed system. You should have 1/2 as many springs as you have pins.

1/2 of the pins may be pointy on one end. These are the "lower pins". The other half will frequently be all the same size and either flat or barely rounded on the ends. These are "driver pins".

The lower pins rid on the grooves/peaks of your key. Try each one in the various holes until you find a combination where all of them are at the same level. This level will generally be flush with the surface of the plug.

Now it's just a matter of putting the springs and drivers back in thier holes, then sliding the plug into place. A wooden dowel (usually 1/2 in) can be used to hold the driver pins in their place while reinserting the plug.

Good luck.

Daniel

Thx to all!!

Got the pins and springs back into the cylinder ok thanks to your help. It also has a pin something like the ones that hold a watchstrap which goes into the back of the cylinder. It used to pop out but now it just sinks in. Could I be missing another spring?

Yup, the spring is missing, gunked up or is collapsed. The spring is a touch smaller than the ones used for the driver pins. If you are lucky, it's still in the hole and just needs to be pulled out and cleaned. If you are not lucky, it's gone. They are usually brass, so a magnet on the floor won't help :-(

A locksmith will have the necessary spring, but expect a sad or disgusted look if he will even sell you one. I don't know where else to find such a small spring.

Daniel

If You can find a discarded disc tumbler lock, like an old one used for desk drawers or some file cabinets, you may be able to use the disc springs. Insert a working key in the lock, then remove the cam bolt,washer and cam on the back.You should be able to turn the key and pull the plug out. Do this over an old cookie sheet or something that will catch the loose parts. Remove the key.You will see about 5 discs-or wafers.Take a small screwdriver or exacto knife and push one or two of them out.If you are holding the plug right side-up, you will see the holes for the springs.carefully remove them.

Hope this helps, Ralph.

get trained in this

already gave some useful links on locksmith training.

Sorry Key, Haven't looked at them yet. Are any of them in Canada?

got ya the links. if ya can't find the time to go through tham ? they probably won't do ya much good anyway :-)

no flame intended

I've been on the phone a lot to the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Univercities. Thought I'd try there first as I have already gone through an extensive search on the web myself before approaching the newsgroup. Once I'm done with the Ministry I will go back and look at your sites. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find a school from the internet which teaches this stuff. Some of the schools I found were very high pressure sales oriented. They kept asking when I could make my first payment which I did not like. I want to be carefull in my selection as I acutally want to be TRAINED in this field and don't want to waste my money. I'm not about to hand someone 1 to

2 thousand dollars for nothing. I was looking for a school in my area but now I would just settle for one that is recognized by the Ministry. I just want to make sure they are half decent. I'm also looking into an apprentis program. I do appreciate the links just the same and will definitely check them out. Thx again. :o)

Why are you so concerned about the location of a correspondence school?

By the way, you may be hoping for too much from a course - the concensus is that they are a good way to get started, but don't provide anything like a complete set of locksmithing skills. (There are a few words about this in the FAQ.)

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hand someone 1 to

settle for one

looking into an

definitely check them out.

Steve, apprenticeship, if you can find one, 'is' the way to go. all of the locksmith training, that I have seen, will just give ya some basics to work with anyway.

good luck