Will this get me fired?

How do you really know if there are problems? A compromised MK won't leave behind any evidence.

Reply to
Ron M
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I merely brought it up to the OP. You chose to engage in a discussion of it when you responded.

Then your response to the OP was woefully incomplete.

Reply to
Ron M

Quote for me where I admitted trespassing or committing any other crime or be proven a clueless liar. I'm waiting.

A wannabe lawyer. That explains a lot.

Quote for me where I said anything about a hand file with regard to this method. I didn't file anything. I punched my keys when I tried it because being conspicuous wasn't a problem. If it was the attacker wouldn't stand in public view when they did it. Unless it was you. I'm sure you would stand there and file away even if it wasn't your door and it was glass.

The machines that

I don't sneak anywhere because I don't have to. If the person were covertly making a key for a system they were not suppose to be messing with yes I imagine they would make the cuts someplace else out of public view and then try the key then go away then come back and try the key and so on.

Do you suffer from some sort of learning disability because if you do I can take that into account in dealing with you. You were the one who blurted out: *The fact that the system being attacked uses a "restricted keyway" only makes the attack slightly more difficult*. I was summarizing YOUR position on restricted keyways. Try to remember what your position is if that isn't too much for you.

I didn't say that. Is this your learning disability kicking in again or just a fundamental inability to comprehend in English? Is there another language you would prefer? If you feel you do not have a learning disability and feel you can read and comprehend English then quote for me where I said *many of the high security designs are "worthless",*. If you can't quote it I will assume that you are a liar or that the learning disability/inability to read and or comprehend English explanation applies.

since they are vulnerable to the "attack" you

I didn't say whether I admired it or not. More comprehension problems I suppose. Did you fail out of college or just drop out?

how would you go about securing a door

I would combine physical security in the form of one or more high security locks such as Medeco ASSA or Abloy, high security door and jamb, with an alarm system for when nobody is there and would add a locking device that only works from the inside for when someone is. If the level of security desired warranted it I might also use electronic access control and/or video cameras on both the inside and outside of the door, this is essentially the solution to security and key control that most motels and hotels have adopted to varying degrees. I would not put anything that was of importance to me on a MK system that much is for sure. Guns and dogs are also good added security measures if the situation allows and they are properly used.

Reply to
Ron M

And if there is missing property and/or dead bodies there genius how do you know if they used a MK since it doesn't leave any trace? That's right you don't. Hopefully you're up to speed now.

Reply to
Ron M

in your eyes, I guess it was.. in mine it wasn't..

nuff said

Reply to
Key

Which attack I'm familiar with and which I have taught to others within the trade.

Edwards,

I saw no need for it. I informed the admistration here of the flaws outlined in my document above, and it went 'in one ear and out the other.' I knew that piling on more technical information in my disclaimer would only make my statement that much longer, and my goal was to keep it as brief as possible. Some even suggested I shorten it, but that I worded it exactly as I wanted it. My supervisor completely understands my explanation of the flaws involved but is hamstrung by upper management who read the first paragraph and handed it to my supervisor after getting to "specifically." He understands my concern but cant authorize a complete re-key, which is what is needed to fix this M-K mess we've got.

BTW, I've never met Billy Edwards. I was just giving credit where due based on what I've learned from his book: 'M-K B T N.' It's my bible when I'm in doubt.

Someone else in this thread made a comment to the effect that I'm reponsible in some far-fetched way for whatever mischief might happen in this community because of the locks here being vulnerable to the attacks I and others have mentioned. Oh, really? How do you figure? Unless you know who my AHJ is, how can you be so certain what my licensing responsibilities are since the state locksmith licensing board defers to local gov't.? It's not the licensing board which writes and enforces building codes; in fact the codes we're talking about were in place 35 years ago, long before there was any licensing board. Grandfather rules.

As it is, I wasn't fired for presenting the ultimatum to my superiors. I didn't expect them to sign my document because it was is admission of some negligence after all. It went into my employee file (at my request), and I simply don't do anything with their keying anymore--I turned down a re-key today and my boss honored my decision.

Reply to
Radrunner

Yes, I researched all that before I posted my query because I interpreted that information to mean: ' you needn't necessarily have a NC Locksmith license to perform locksmithing tasks if you fall into any of these categories.'

I already have a NC locksmith license and so I'm overqualfied for my current position (short-term, I hope). I had my license long before I began working for my current employer. I do not presume that just because I needn't be licensed to re-key the residents' locks I won't also be held professionally responsible for any substandard work I might do. Ain't worth it.

Reply to
Radrunner

I come across the same problem everyday in Ontario. There is no licensing for locksmiths here and everyone and his brother claim to be able to rekey a lock.

Most customers will not understand when you tell them of the problems with their system. "But the key works." is what they will tell you.

This is similar to the problem of look-alike locks which are of dubious construction but once installed look like any other lock. The customer will be happy with the product until it is tested.

You are quite right to be worried - however remember that you are repairing the system with every rekey you do. I trust that you are using a new bitting system and not just pulling keys out of a box to add to the system.

Eventually the system will all be on the new bitting and working properly.

You do have another option: Recommend that the customer upgrade to a high security system.

This will solve the current problem and protect your customer from other problems.

Good luck,

Jason M. Scheide President

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Reply to
xsd8s

I invite anyone to help me document the fact that proper masterkeying procedures are *standard practice* within the locksmith trade and that anything less amounts to actual and legal negligence and should be punished by law. Someone with whom I've argued this point insists that there is no legal responsibility assumed by a landlord when a master key system is put in place which encompasses the tenants' residences, even if that MK system is physically below industry standards (as i have outlined above).

Surprisingly, I have not yet been able to find documentation for my position on the wwww, though I'm certain it exists. I would especially like to find legal documentation relative to North Carolina's housing laws. Somebody throw me a clue.

Reply to
Radrunner

Civily, you can sue anyone for anything. I doubt you will find any state law about violating industry standards for masterkeying. You'd be better off looking for case law from appeals court decisions.

Skip

Reply to
skipfromla

Here are the NC general statutes but like skipfromla already said this is probably going to come down to a question of existing case law, not statutory law.

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Reply to
Steve

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