Invention Idea

Hi everyone!!

My name is Luke Taylor and I am new to the group.

If you are interested I would welcome any advice you might have on my project. Basically I am looking for resources and/or advice to move my invention to the next step.

I have an invention idea for a "method of propulsion." The concept includes pneumatics and magnets. My idea is different from anything currently on the market. I have had 3 consultations with engineers or experts and they have all have told me that the invention will not work and contradicts basic physics. I disagree and now that I have clearly identified why they say that idea won't work, I would like to build a basic prototype to demonstrate that the idea will work. I am done designing the idea conceptually, and I know think that I need to move to actual physically making the prototype. I plan to design the prototype on the Autocad Inventor Series and then used a 3D printer to print out the design. Here is the ballpark $5,000 budget:

Research via Google Answers $200 Text books (in order to research/purchase specific components) $200 Desktop computer optimized for Autocad $1500 LCD flat screen $500 Components of prototype $170 Autocad Inventor software $500

If the prototype works it would create significant leverage to develop a real prototype instead of just a basic conceptual prototype. At that time I would like to hire a team including mechanical engineers, etc.= whose expertise will be invaluable in developing a real prototype. If the basic prototype doesn't work than I know that idea will not work in its present state.

What do you think? Any advice? Any idea of how to find financial resources ($5,000)?

Thanks

Luke

Dear taylorluker:

You wouldn't listen to knowledgeable people before, so why would you listen now?

Save the money. Buy the parts, assemble a mockup, and make it "propulse". Escher designed several structures on paper (early CAD) that also could not be made and contradicted basic physics.

Note that "pneumatics" are quite energy intensive, unless you are talking about very small requirements (like a CO2 cartridge).

David A. Smith

Save your money, kid. You're not going to get rich "breaking" the laws of physics.

Book on basic thermodynamics: $50 Knowing the reason the engineers told you it was impossible: Priceless.

Don Kansas City

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

I think your costs are very unrealistic. In my experience 5000 bucks is a drop in the ocean when developing a new product.

However, I see no reason why you need an expensive desktop or an lcd screen. I've seen Inventor running perfectly well on a 1.3 GHz laptop, admittedly with 1 GB of RAM. So, figure on 600 bucks for the PC.

My textbooks cost about 100 bucks each, and I have boxes of them, so the money you've just saved on the PC will probably go on research materials.

I'm surprised Inventor is only 500 bucks. Why did you choose Inventor rather than anything else? the name?

Is that a firm quote for the cost of 'printing' the prototype?

You'll need a patent.

As to raising money, well, you've got a problem. Anyone sane who you ask to back you will ask an engineer what they think of the idea. And three times in a row you've had the same answer there.

So, find someone insane to back you, get a second job, or do some overtime.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Nobody other than relatives will fund a project if you tell them that independent experts have black-balled your idea. Contact a mech eng professor at a research university and ask for a visit with him to explore your idea. Unless it's a perpetual motion idea, you might get some advice that would turn an impossible idea into a possible device. Try easing back on the spending ideas. You can go an awful long way for the cost of gas, an airline ticket at worst.

By the way, over $3000 of your business plan involves buying a PC and software to draw things, plus the training class to be able to use it.

You COULD find someone using a design PC and give him $300 to draw your idea. Like that.....

If you really wanted to go places, you could give enough details of your thingamee for the people here to pick some holes.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Luke,

As noted by several responses, you face several very serious obstacles. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

First, having three engineers tell you the idea defies the laws of physics is extremely important. If you don't agree with their assessments, can you explain your reasoning? Your first priority should be to learn enough that you understand why the engineers responded as they did. If your idea has merit, you need to also understand the mistake made by all three engineers when they reviewed your idea. Unless you accomplish this task, everything else you do will be a waste of time and money. If you can't do this yourself, you need help with the conceptual development. Looking here for help might be a good idea. Otherwise, talking with friends and family members with engineering and/or physics backgrounds would be a wise course of action. If you can't fund this project yourself, you are going to need volunteers.

Second, your $5,000 budget is probably very unrealistic. Autodesk Inventor retails for $5,000 by itself. Add in a computer and you have already exceeded your budget. Do you have any experience with 3-D modeling or CAD software? How about mechanical design, drafting, 3-D geometry, etc.? Depending upon your level of knowledge and experience, the cost (both in time and dollars) of training yourself to design and model the invention can easily exceed $750. I am not familiar with the complexity of your idea, but a propulsion system based on pneumatics and magnets is likely to involve a level of detail that will pose a serious challenge for a beginner. You never mentioned the size of your prototype or the number of components, but $750 doesn't go very far in the world of rapid prototyping. For $750 you can possibly fabricate a small, simple assembly. In your case, you presumably need a working prototype, so the requirements of your prototype parts will be more critical. Therefore, you may need to purchase prototype parts that are more expensive than the cheapest ones you can find. Unfortunately, I can't provide any more detail without knowing more about your project.

There is an alternative to buying a computer and Inventor, learning to use it, and taking the time to design everything yourself. You could hire some design/engineering help. This would allow you to progress much more rapidly and eliminate all of the uncertainties associated with training yourself. An experienced designer/engineer should bring much experience to the project and help avoid making mistakes. There are two down sides to this approach - cost and convincing the hired help the project is viable. If the hired help really believes in the project, you might be able to work out a project where they would be paid at a later stage of the project. Otherwise, you will need to pay them up front. Without knowing more about your project, I can't even guess at the number of hours required for this project. I can tell you that hiring experienced help with such a project becomes very expensive very quickly. If I was talking to you about this project, I would provide our standard quote of $75 per hour and offer a discount if you were pre-paying for 100 hours or more. Even two days of assistance will cost $1,200.

If you wish to discuss this further, you are welcome to contact me.

Dear Luke Taylor,

My response is basically the same as the other responses you've received so far. Two points:

1. If the experts you've consulted tell you that your invention is impossible, and would violate basic laws of physics (such as conservation of energy?), then perhaps you'd better give some serious consideration to what they have to say. The world has too many people as it is trying to build perpetual motion machines, inventing their own bizzare, crackpot theories of physics, etc., without adding one more.

1. Looking at your budget:

It looks like nearly all your money is going for a computer, AutoCad, classes on how to use AutoCad, etc. A previous poster has pointed out that you could hire someone to make the drawings for you for far less. But, do you even need Autocad drawings at all? You have allowed only $170 to buy the parts for your invention, and there are no funds allocated for machining parts, so why not make a drawing with pencil on paper (or the back of a napkin) ?

(What do you mean by "3D printing of prototype" ? )

Olin Perry Norton

Dear Olin Perry Norton:

"Olin Perry Norton" wrote in message news:dpuhrk$2fe$ snipped-for-privacy@nntp.msstate.edu... ...

Perhaps "stereolithography" or its close kin...

David A. Smith

Some rapid prototype systems are referred to as 3D printers. Some systems (I don't remember which manufacturer) actually use inkjet print heads to build prototype parts layer by layer. This technology may have been the source of the name "3D printer". I am more familiar with Selective Laser Sintering (SLS) and Stereolithography (SLA).

Tom

I think the term "3D Printer" originated around the time that the first office-friendly SLA machines came out (including the Stratasys, which uses melted ABS wire, and a few other technologies including an adaptation of inkjet) to differentiate them from the much larger, more complex SLA systems using powerful lasers and liquid resin that preceded them... kinda make buyers feel like they were just buying a very fancy printer for the engineering office, instead of a big intimidating machine requiring special facilities and training.

-Dana

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