bicycle survival

I suppose we all know that bicycles are far more economical to own and operate than motor vehicles, not that motors can't be attached to them. But I was just wondering if any places around the world are really into the "bicycle economy" idea.

Site at

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for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long rant about tearing down freeways and building bike lanes. Milwaukee Mayor John Norquist, overseeing the project, famously said, "Highways don't belong in cities. Period." Imagine what it costs these days to be building more freeways, maintaining the old ones.

Some new developments in bicycle technology: studded tires for winter, self-inflating tires (?), health benefits of bicycles.

The top 10 bicycle friendly cities reported show some trends toward bicycle economy and enthusiastic atmosphere.

(quoting variously)

  1. Amsterdam, The Netherlands: public bikes are available to rent; massive bike parking structure at train station underway.

  1. Copenhagen, Denmark: public bike rent-free, only deposit.

  2. Bogota, Columbia: only 13% own cars; once a week city closes streets to vehicle traffic for bikes, joggers, skaters, etc..

  1. Curitiba, Brazil: city planning for bicycles for more than 40 years, bike lanes everywhere.

  2. Montreal, Canada: 2009 investment of 4 million to build bike trails and make atmosphere bicycle-friendly, has bicycle lock points in parking meters, the Bixi Program of urban bike sharing infrastructure.

  1. Portland, Oregon: 260 miles of bicycle paths connecting neighborhoods, program of low-cost commuter bicycles for less wealthy residents, complete with helmet, lock, pump, maps, and rain gear.

  2. Basel, Switzerland: unique bicycle left-turn lanes, bike rentals for residents and tourists.

  1. Barcelona, Spain: has a green ring running the perimeter of the urban core for a bike path, peppered with 100 bike stations for sharing, rent and drop off.

  2. Beijing, China: biking is best for congested city traffic, has favor with air quality issues.

One favorite place for bicycles is San Francisco, but not mentioned here.

Anchorage, Alaska, where I live, was once so liberal during the "boom days" that the City Assembly decided to buy 200 white bicycles to position in several places around the city, for people to use freely. In a year they were all missing; couldn't find one to put in a museum. But winter time use of bicycles here is on the increase, despite the snow and ice. bookburn

Reply to
bookburn
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bicycles or factories...which one keeps the money flowing in?

Ill take factories any day.

Which means...delivering a load of washing machines to the next town over is gonna be a bitch using bicycles.....

-- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince".

Reply to
Gunner Asch

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> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Maybe. One example where the bicycle isn't ideal; bulk point to point, but it is ideal for multipoint distribution, especially in places where it is very difficult for motor vehicles to get around, like old european cities with narrow streets.

The issiue really isn't astuff like trucks delivering needed stuff, but fat arse cagers who insist on driving door to door in their personal motorised heavy weight polluting motor vehicle. now, if you stopped catering for those, then you will have enormous room for factories without affecting bicycles in any way.

Reply to
terryc

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>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Very interesting that truck drivers prefer cities with highways and wide streets for access to factories and delivery points. On the other hand, some cities without the highways and wide streets for trucking are naturally bicycle havens and can support a "bicycle economy" better. Designing a city for both would be a difficult job for those in charge of codes and ordinances, if only because of politics. Don't usually have separate districts for business, residential, etc., and government buildings are allowed to take the sites with a view, parking, etc., right in the downtown.

Me, I'm interested in a city with a "bicycle economy," which would be better for pedestrians, low pollution, local markets, more residential. So I suppose this rules out cities and rules in towns. I hear of gated communities; wonder if there are any gated towns?

Reply to
bookburn

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>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Not very damned many of those here in the US. And you are going to deliver a new anvil to me..right? 45 miles from the shipping center in Bakersfield, and it only weights 375 lbs.

Door to door. So slick...were do you live? In my neck of the woods, often times going to your neighbor or buddies house on a bicycle will take you 3 hours. Each way.

It means you wont be moving to a community with any industrial areas, any shopping areas besides a small store, and a place where everyone lives withing spitting distance of each other.

Gunner

-- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince".

Reply to
Gunner Asch

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>>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

The idea of distance between things is interesting, because it seems we all have this in mind in our relations, communications. Animals distance themselves apart a certain distance, like birds on a fence. I was amazed when camping at a park on Vancouver Island and a couple moved up to within ten feet of me, although other places were available.

I'm thinking of a couple acres within sight of a village of 200-5,000, that has a name, public school, post office, maybe 1 dentist and 1 doctor, a sheriff, more than one restaurant, a bakery, a church with a bell, at least two groceries, filling station with wrecker, a hardware store, etc.. Town could be just off a highway and an hour or two from a city. The kind of place not big enough for a big-box store and where you pretty much know everybody and what's going on. A community. Lots of them around already, but not using bicycles that much. A place like that would rally around and defend after TSHTF.

Reply to
bookburn

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>>>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Amend that 200-5000 to around < 20,000 and you will find a shitload of towns that fit the above bills. And have more than 1 doctor/dentist and probably a small hospital or urgent care center.

And they will be largely crime free, a modest amount of drug usage, some nightlife and depending on which part of the country it is...(stay away from the east coast)..conservative and libertarian.

They will have enough infrastructure to have at least one small machine shop, a Radio Shack and so forth.

There is nothing wrong with a big box store. And there are LOTs of such places in middle America..a Walmart or Kmart..probably at least one hardware store, a couple tire stores and so forth.

Too small..and it becomes very political, everyone knows what you do, who you are, and why you are the way you are..etc etc. Shopping becomes exceptionally expensive because the small store(s) can charge higher prices..and do, and so forth and selection is poor, and there is little chance of Good stuff at yard sales, etc etc. plus medical aid becomes very Iffy.

Which is why I love living where I do. Im in a small town thats under

19k, an hour away from the nearest city, in a nicely Red conservative county, with lots of agriculture and industry(oil) around.

Food is cheap when you buy it directly from the loading docks at the farms, power will always be available (oil co-generation) and water will also be readily available. But Im 100 miles away from Urban...Los Angeles, on the north side of a 5000 foot pass..and it will be easy to simply shut it down if things turn to shit.

Lots and lots of places like that all around America.

Gunner

-- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince".

Reply to
Gunner Asch

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>>>>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

I like a couple of movies set in Texas, like "The Last Picture Show" and "Not a Country for Old Men," because they show a strong heritage of sense of place and history. I vote for the small towns with standards worth standing up for.

Reply to
bookburn

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>>>>>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Just keep in mind...that a lot of those small towns of your specific size..are dying towns or nearly ghost towns.

Even in Texas.

Gunner

-- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince".

Reply to
Gunner Asch

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>>>>>>>> argues for not only supporting existing bicycle paths, but has a long

Maybe an old town with no industry and in decline is a good deal for survivalists?

My folks once owned part of an old apple farm that had gone into back-taxes failure. Made a summer fishing resort out of it, but the old apple trees were still there, overgrown with alders. I was free of daily chores, so got an ax and started cutting down alders around a group of apple trees that looked half dead. A year or so later I got to rummaging around in the crawl space under the old farmhouse and found an old set of cider press and tools. Reminded me of the apple trees, and I went to look, and darned if the limbs now getting sunshine somehow had fruit on them. The story ends bad, because the older folks saw what I was doing and took it over, but I got a message anyway. bookburn

Reply to
bookburn

It would be good..but..how do you live in such a town? Everything ultimately costs money. Unless you are rich....its a bitch to live without money. Facts of life

Now the big differences between many positive and negative areas of America..is the difference in how much money it takes to make a go of it.

In New Jork City..it takes a shitload. In Bumfuck, Idaho..it takes far far less.

-- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince".

Reply to
Gunner Asch

"Life is a bitch; and then you die."

I have to disagree that it takes so much money to survive. Main thing is to have income, anything at all. I bet that you could flip burgers and make enough to support yourself, so long as you waste not.

Reply to
bookburn

That could be done in Bumfuck Idaho..it could not be done in New Jork City as two extreme examples.

Its not how much in total it costs..but how much you make..versus how much it costs in total.

If your rent is $250 month, utilities and whatnot are another $100, fuel and vehicle expenses are another $100..thats less than $500 a month in the basics, less food, communications and clothing. Lets assume that those cost you an additional $500 a month..food has to be imported and sells high (many rural areas that are not ag based), internet at $50 a month, work clothing and Going Out gear..and the cost to launder them)

Thats $1000 a month and your basics are covered. Add in another $100 for Fun..books, hobbies, etc etc..$1100 a month. Base that on a burger flipping job that pays $6 an hour x 160 hrs a month = $960 a month total income before taxes, FICA etc etc...so that will be around $700 take home. And you are still short $400 a month before the bills are paid.

Assume that the burger flipping job is $10hr...and that brings your gross up to $1600 a month. That gives you a $600 surplus before taxes...or about a $200 surplus after taxes (keep in mind Ive only said rent was $250 a month......more on this later)

Now in New Jork City..that rent will be $2000+ and add 25% for the basic expenses. Im sure without doing the math...you can see that it will take a significant increase in pay...100% increase at minimum...to come close to covering the bills. There are not very many places that pay burger flippers $20hr. The most Ive seen was in the Bay Area (Frisco) and they were paying $15hr...least thats what they were claiming they were offering....shrug

Given in much of the US..one can rent a house for $500 a month..or even buy one for that much a month...you can work as a burger flipper, save your pennies and own a nice small older home. However...add in any medical..and suddenly it becomes a real iffy thing. Added costs of company insurance each month..and now you are pushing the wire with your nose really hard.

It simply cannot be done in New Jork City or just about any larger urban area. Too many people, too much competition for housing, jobs and goods and services. Think a water bill in the city is $25month? Think again for virtually all big cities.....

There are parts of America that the local town will GIVE you a house if you promise to stay there for 3-5 yrs' Read the below article....

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And this one...

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(remember..in those states...heating requirements..are high)

And so on and so forth.

Now in Detroit..you can buy a home for $1 dollar. One Dollar.

If you are willing to move there..and "fix it up"

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Now on the other hand..Detroit while its an anomoly..does have some interesting things if one is handy with ones hands and is a survivalist.

Id consider buying an entire block. All I need is one good home on that block to fix up and live in. Then bulldoze every other dwelling on the property, fill in the basements, and put up a good high quality chain link fence with razor wire on the top of it. Then Id start plowing and farm that entire block. A fella could do this for under $100k..own an entire city block of farm land in the middle of Detroit. Or leave a couple extra homes standing..and move in ones friends/compadres and have them share the work. (be damned careful about who and what they are....)

Its close enough to the good parts of the city to be able to earn a living at a conventional job..if you can find one...or simply live off the farm and take in side work, machining/welding/repair etc etc.

Costs would be minimal for urban dwelling. The natives might get a litle restless..but you have nice farm land in which to bury the more agressive ones..just put em into the ground before the end of October..else you will have to store em until next spring and the ground softens up enough to dig a hole).

Its an interesting idea...but Im not sure how the "city fathers" would look at such a rural industry in their city. Given that they are desperate for taxable income....you might be able to work out a deal with them and save a shitload of money. Just keep in mind..that law enforcement is nearly non existant in those areas..as is fire and emergency services. So you would have to take preps in those regards as well. If you had a $100k...one could build a very nice concrete home, mostly subteranian..earth bermed for example..and as long as it looked pretty to the city fathers...I think a guy/group could do very nicely.

Detroit..is returning at breakneck speed to a rural world. Since the roads are there, power and water are there (though in what condition?)..it does pose some very interesting possiblities indeed.

Hummmm

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12.5 million hits.....

Gunner

Gunner

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Keep in mind that there are short order cooks, cabbies, bartenders, guys selling hot dogs on the street, waitresses, sweatshop workers, and so forth living in NYC. How do they do it? I don't have a clue, but it isn't all Masters of the Universe in their gentrified digs in SoHo.

Reply to
robert bowman

On what planet?

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

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