Bolt Action or Double Rifle!

Yes Sir. I've gotten th' last 7-8 usin' a scoped Ruger 10-22 with LR's. One shot, one kill. Then th' work starts. At least th' whitetails out here in western WA are fairly small (for packin' out purposes). Tastier than their eastern WA bretheren too.

Snarl... mmmm, backstrap, goood

Very well said. We live way out in th' toolies and every damned year we get masses of said weekend warriors out here *hunting*. Well mostly they drink, throw their garbage all over, wound a deer and go back to their McMansions. Sumbitches even go so far as to take just th' horns home (if they get lucky and actually have a kill) and leave th' rest to rot. That boils my blood too.

That said, I've been using my Ruger 10-22 for years to bring home th' venison. It takes practice, lots of practice, but I have a shooting range on th' back 40 and really enjoy it. Plus there's an old apple orchard where th' original homestead burned down which makes for easy pickin's. They drop in their tracks with their very last thought being how nice that big juicy apple tastes.

Practice, practice, practice.

Snarl

Heh, about all that'd likely do is piss a guy off. Hope you have something a bit bigger to stop him from pinchin' yer head off and shittin' in th' hole.

Well, that'd be me, according to you, Mr. Swinney. Th' last 7-8 deer I've fed m' family were killed with 22 LR's. A scoped Ruger 10-22 that's been massaged a tad. One shot, one kill, dropped in their tracks. All head shots. Never wounded or lost one with that gun yet, nor will I. I'll be gettin' another deer this year with it as well.

Just got a crow on th' fly with it a couple days ago. I *hate* crows. It's hangin' by th' feet in my backyard as we tap. Drives th' rest of 'em crazy. It kind of reminds of th' above, annoying, bleating noises coming out of yer beak.

And I also agree with Don's statement about weekend warriors. I'm not one of them.

I guess some folks can sharpen tooling by hand, some can't. I happen to be quite successful at bringing venison home with a .22 LR, it appears you can't. Does that mean those who need a steady rest to grind cutting tools need to be gut shot as well?

Snarl

I doubt I'll ever need this. But at this point, with aperture sights on my .22 I'm pissed if I don't get all of them inside one inch at 50 yards. Still it's nice to know the local deer population *could* be put to use in a pinch.

Head shot. Filed away for future reference....

Jim

snarl sez: "Just got a crow on th' fly with it a couple days ago. I *hate* crows.

Oh really! Hang 'em up so the others can see them. Very original idea! Hmmnnn, I'll bet you're one of those that hang dead rattlesnakes over the tailgate of your pickup so everyone can see you're doing your job to rid the world of evil snakes.

Naw, I guess it's too late and too illegal to gut shoot you. But on the other hand if it'd have happened to your granpaw, there might be a couple less generations of ignorant rednecks in your area. Whyn't you quit hiding behind your computer name and use your real name so you can be reported to the authorities for illegal hunting.

Bob (does not suffer fools) Swinney

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Good answer.

I've had considerable experience with both. There is no question that most bullet kills are from hydraulic shock and tissue destruction before death from blood loss.

One thing that hasn't been included in our discussion is noise. Hit or miss with a rifle, the deer knows you are there. He is making tracks to the best of his ability. Even with a fatal wound.

A deer may jump when an arrow penetrates but he doesn't equate it with danger. Many times, they simply lie down. Some have been knocked off balance and fell, got up and then laid down again. I've had to trail many more rifle and pistol shot deer than bow.

By the way, for bow, I prefer a liver shot over heart or lungs. More bleeding and the heart is still pumping it out. Ideal arrow penetration is half the arrow sticking out the far side of the animal. A complete blood channel and something to stir the pot, so to speak.

As an aside, a broadhead will penetrate green wood (live tree) as deep as a light rifle bullet such as a .223, .243, 22-250, 30-30, etc. The bullet gives up its energy quicker.

ONLY from the side, or directly into the eye socket.

Hence the Shining Yellow Orb you are trying to pop.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

And a broadhead will penetrate a Level 3 bullet resistant vest where a

44 magnum will not.

And often zip on out the other side

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Never claimed it to be an original idea Mr. Swinney. Please give us dumb assed rednecks an example of one of *your* original thoughts. Anything? Come on, at least one?

All I know is those damned crows give a wide berth to our area when I nail one. That makes me happy. Nailin' one on th' fly with a .22 is just gravy.

No Sir. We just ate 'em. I eat those evil chickens too... th' horror! Although, instead of usin' a .22 LR on those, I prefer to just buy them at th' local KFC. You know, so th' grease can dribble down and waterproof m' bibs.

Keyboard flexer too, huh?

Ok, I'll admit I'm fairly new to th' world of machining. Been lurking here for quite some time. However, I'm not new to usenet and big mouthed, generalizing morons, Mr. Swinney. I bow to your superior machining capabilities. Your alligator mouth is less than impressive however.

First off, Snarl is my real name. I couldn't care less if you believe that Mr. Swinney. I'd be more than happy to meet you somewhere and show you my drivers license if yer a bettin' man. I travel a lot. Put yer money where yer alligator mouth is Mr. Swinney.

Second, there's absolutely nothing illegal about my hunting activities. If yer feelin' lucky, place a wager on that one too.

Mr. Swinney, I submit that you Sir, are a fool. Well, that is if you stand by your statement below about gut shootin' folks who shoot deer with a .22 LR.

In my short fiftymumbleodd years, I've come to th' conclusion that generalizations generally suck.

Nope, so sorry, not an original idea of mine either Mr. Swinney.

Snarl

Roll your own. I can't remember the last time I bought factory ammo for anything other than .22 rimfire.

-jc-

The 7 mag is a good case to reload. Doesnt take much. You can even load it with a extremely inexpensive Lee Loader and get decent ammo.

Cost ya about $20 if you already own a plastic faced hammer.

Ive got probably 15 different Lee Loaders collecting dust. I keep em on hand if I ever need to bug out

Gunner

Leftwingers are like pond scum. They are green, slimy, show up where they are not wanted, and interfere with the fishing.

Strider

Another option: Different/better buttplate. My Remington 700 in .30-06 is a hair too light for my liking (but it was needed as *IMMEDIATELY* as legally possible, it was available, and the price was right), and a hair too short for my precise fit, and the recoil... Oy... Let's just say that metal butt-plate wants to bite a chunk outta the top of my armpit every time I pull the trigger.

Cured it, though - Got a critter called a "limbsaver". It's a slip-on rubber buttplate cushion that pleasantly surprised me. It actually DOES do the job. Slides onto the butt of the gun, and turns most of the recoil *WHACK!* into something a lot more like a push. Kinda the difference between a shove and a punch.

No vested interest in the product or gun shop I bought it from, but I think it does a good job taking the kick out of my gun. YMMV...

I gotta agree with Igor - 7mm Remington Mag kicks vicious-hard. I've fired one - Another Remington model 700 - I can't tell a lie. I like the

700 - And so do a lot of other folks, apparently - Anyway, this one had the "BDL" trim package. (Mine is the "bare bones" model) Basically identical to my rifle but with the 24" barrel, prettier trim, and a good bit heavier. A friend brought it over one day figuring on doing some deer hunting after dropping us off a load of hay. We got to chatting after the load was in the barn, and his gun in the back window of the truck caught my eye. We got to talking hunting, which led to artillery, and then that age-old game of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" snuck up and grabbed us both, whereupon I went and got mine out and cleared while he got his out. We compared guns and Oh look, yours has the sling loop mounted two inches further forward and yadda yadda, and of course, I had to point it down my impromptu 50 yard range. I fired it. ONCE. Holy mule-kick, Batman! To my credit, I *DID* hit my target - 2 and about a quarter inches off the x at an estimated 70-80 degrees off the vertical - Basically, about an inch high and 2 inches to the right of my aimpoint. Can't say I would have hit the BACKBOARD if I'd taken a second shot, though - My whole dang arm was tingling bad enough that the only thing I wanted to do was hand the gun back to its owner! It was a lot like a funny-bone hit, but the sensation seemed to originate in the back of my armpit, sending *ZING*s down my arm for several minutes afterwards. Truly weird.

I betcha with this Limbsaver thing strapped on it, it'd be a WHOLE bunch more civilized gun...

Okay, that's very interesting. $20.98 is not much money. How do I use one? Is the "reloader" (plus consumables like bullets and gunpowder and primers) the only thing that I need?

i

For the oddball stuff (.43 Mauser, or .44 S&W Russian), I'll usually buy a box or two of loaded ammo, and _then_ reload for the life of the brass. But, it's nice to know that if I want to be lazy, I can go buy 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, or whatever other caliber I want.

With the Dillon, reloading 500 is just as easy as reloading 20, so I tend to do things in big batches.

>

Pretty much all you need. You hammer the primer out with a decapping tool, you hammer the new one in, you use the included scoop to add x amount of the proper powder, the seater to stick in a new bullet and voila..you have a loaded round.

On the other hand..for about $125, I think Lee Precision makes a complete starter setup with a regular reloading press, powder weighing scale, etc etc. Its not bad for its type and many millions have been sold.

The old Lee Loader (the cheapy) was intended for the farmer or rural guy who might want or need more ammo during the course of a year than a box or two but didnt want to get into reloading.

Its not bad actually.

Personally..Id go with the $125 starter set..but hey..if you simply want a cheapy way to load ammo..the Lee Loader works and has a well proven track record. If you have an arbor press, it works even better

Like machine tools, if you get the reloading bug...you will find yourself collecting Stuff...

I used to reload at minimum, 35,000 rounds a year when I was in competition. I have Stuff

Gunner

Leftwingers are like pond scum. They are green, slimy, show up where they are not wanted, and interfere with the fishing.

Strider

Thanks. I will probably end up buying this stuff.

i

>>

You don't shoot enough. :-)

Perhaps you aggravated an old injury? Maybe didn't have a "firm grip" on it?

Possibly. I re-stocked my Browning A-Bolt 7mm RemMag last year, with a McMillan composite stock (their "standard drop-in" model with built-in recoil pad). Really made it comfortable to shoot (also fits better :-) ).

-jc-

Does *ANYBODY* actually shoot "enough"?!?!? :)

Both possible, I'm sure. Until his, though, I've never (before or since) had such a "reaction" to shooting a rifle. It felt a lot like somebody had grabbed my 32 ounce Estwing framing hammer and mistook my shoulder for a 16d nail. By comparison, my .30-06 (without the "Limbsaver" attached) has a similar "hit", but instead of my Estwing, they grabbed onto my little 6 ounce tack hammer. With the "Limbsaver", the "hit" is a

*LOT* more like like the sensation I get if/when I'm working with the horses, and one of them turns suddenly and bumps into me - It's more of a "push" than an "impact".

Yep, that's another bonus of this thing for me - As mentioned, my rifle is just a touch too small for me "on its own". The added length on the stock from the Limbsaver makes it fit me pretty darn close to perfect.

Try shooting a 375 H&H with a screwed up rotator cuff.

Someday when Im rich, Ill get that fixed.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael