Bolt Action or Double Rifle!

Izzat the "instant Uzi, just add file" mod I've heard about?

If so, only one comment: Mmmmm... Pre-chewed venison! :)

If you are a vegetarian, then you might be right. But if you are a meat eater, then if you are a real man, you kill your own meat and not depend on someone doing it for you.

Dan

stanley baer wrote:

The Garret rounds are a nice load. Give great accuracy and penetrating power.

But I there are questions as to some of what Vince Lupo claims....

But if I could toss a 45-70 hunk of lead weighing in at 420 grains at

Right now I am loading to 2120 fps. :)

Carmelo

LR. Shoot at one of those two yellow dots.

Works quite well.

Er...so they say.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

UP and Grayling areas too.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

What is the difference between someone who thinks meat comes in little plastic wrapped containers and those who dont?

A large gut pile

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

The old Winchesters can have a small setscrew in the trigger to adjust the sear, and scrfewed in 'too far' the piece is reliably FA.

Interesting. I would have been suprised to learn that a 22 LR could take a deer. Very economical.

Jim

If you're going to get 'em with a .22 (long or otherwise), shot placement is critical. A shot that would be a no-questions "deer in the freezer in a few hours" with a .30-06, .30-30, 7mm Remington Mag, .270, or similar "deer-suitable" artillery can *EASILY* end up being "Wounded deer wandering off to live however long it can".

Unfortunately, too many idiots who can shoulder a rifle seem to be under the impression that "It's a gun. It goes bang. So when I point it at something and make it go bang, the something is going to lay down and die." If they were toting a decent deer rifle instead of a .22, their "philosophy", for lack of a better word, would be functional - Even a "marginally decent" hit on a deer with a .30-06 or similar gun means chances are good it ain't going much more than a couple hundred yards - IF it manages to go that far. The EXACT SAME HIT with a .22 is likely to leave the deer running like hell, fully able to keep running for who-knows-how-long, and the shooter wondering what's for dinner tonight, since "Elvis has done left th' building'."

Which is precisely why it's illegal to use a .22 for deer hunting in all the states I'veever held a deer license in. Maimed game wandering the woods ain't pretty, from either a practical or "politically correct" standpoint. It's not that a .22 CAN'T take a deer - They can, and quite handily. It's that *WAY* too often, the idiot *OPERATING* the .22 isn't worth a pile of chilled wombat turds in the "actual real live hunter" category, despite his "weekend warrior" quotient being off the top of the scale...

Ah...er..ahum...A Sheridan Blue Streak pump up pellet gun in 5mm has been known to cleanly take deer, when the shooter is within 40 feet and places his shot exactly.

Their skulls are thin on the sides and are easily penetrated. The area behind and an inch below the eye and in front of the ear is a good place to punch a small hole.......

Or so they say. ahum.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Different tangent: What will drop a deer faster, rifle or arrow with broadhead? I have heard that a well placed arrow will cause deer to fall instantly. I suspect a shot will do the same. I don't hunt so I don't know.

Hey, I've got one of those! By the way, did you ever look at those pictures I sent you the link to? On a side note, where can I buy those 5mm pellets? I'd hate to use up my whole supply.

As far as deer go, I'd rather overdo it than underdo it. Quick is better than "maybe".

Dave Hinz

The answer to that question *TOTALLY* depends on where the hit is. A good solid neck/spine hit *MAY* drop it instantly if the spine is sheared. A head shot (insane with a bow, but someone somewhere will try for it, I'm sure) *CAN* be done,and would probably result in a "it dropped in its tracks" kill, but that takes one helluva good archer, excellent arrow placement in exactly the right location, and with the lower effective energy of an arrow versus a bullet, penetration to the brain is iffy.

Aside from those, broadheads work primarily on the "make it bleed to death" princple - Other than the hits mentioned above, it's my opinion that anyone claiming an instant knockdown from an arrow hit on a deer is either talking out his ass, or a lucky shot.

With a rifle, there are more shots that will "make it drop quick, and die fairly rapidly" that are possible than with an arrow - The larger effective energy can be enough to *EFFECTIVELY* kill the deer instantly, even if it's actually more of a concept of "hit him so hard he CAN'T go anywhere and in the process, make a big enough hole so that he bleeds out before he can recover enough get up and run" than an "instant kill" like a head-shot would be.

The "up the ass" shot would be one of those... Although it's a shot I prefer to avoid if even a little bit possible (nothing seems to ruin venison as quick as gut-contents splattered all over everywhere) it's effective - With a reasonably sized rifle, chances are good that Mr. Deer is going to drop (and likely stay down at least for a short time) right where he stands from the hydrostatic shock, giving you ample time to walk up and put a finishing shot in his ear or whatever. (or drop, then bleed to death internally while you're trying to decide if he's dead or just playing possum - Same end result) while with an arrow, the same shot PRETTY MUCH guarantees that the deer is going to make tracks for "anywhere but here", and find a quiet place to die a few days later of a combination of starvation/dehydration and/or the massive infection that's certain to develop from having the contents of his guts turned loose in the fertile culure zone of the abdominal cavity - probably without you ever putting eyes on it again.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:35:24 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake:

And a new fur coat or leatherware.

======================================================== TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Very true and well said.

Its also understood that using a jack light and any firearm to take deer is unlawful in every state that Im aware of.

On the other hand....in many of the poorer areas of the Midwest and Northeast, "freezer beef" is a mainstay of many familys, and are harvested with said above impliments. Ive yet to find a deer that was hit in the skull with a .22 that wasnt either killed outright, or healed quickly from the wound. And I did deer carcass surveys for the DNR for several years as a teen.

One NEVER attempts a body shot with a .22lr on anything much bigger than a porkypine simply because its not all immediately effective nor humane, and will not put meat in your belly.. Which is the name of the game in those circumstances.

Personally, I take great pride in stating catagoriclly that Ive never allowed a wounded animal to escape. And I cant think of any of my personal game animals that were "wounded"

one shot, one kill.

If you cant be 100% sure, keep your finger off the trigger.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Bullet.

A broadhead kills by internal hemmorage only. There is NO shock of any sort. A bullet will cause a huge temporary wound channel, broken bones which become secondary missiles and so forth. The critter has to bleed out. So the goal is to make as many organs/arteries and so forth to leak as fast as possible. A solid passage through one or both lungs and the heart cause the lungs to fill and collapse. A broadhead is deadly. I think Id rather take a bullet wound than a broadhead wound, but that being said...the bullet will kill quicker when placed in the proper place.

Both weapons used poorly will cause wounded game to escape. I was told that a through and through via broadhead in a non vital area has a better chance of healing than does a bullet wound. YMMV

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Excellent post.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael