Calling Harold Vordos - how best to sell silver

Joe, That's a valid question, one that deserves a straight answer. I wish I could provide one. :-) For starters, it would be in the best interest of the relative to explore the pattern, to determine if it's valuable beyond the silver content. They often are, and there's no doubt that replacement value would be greater than the scrap value, but if there's no particular market for the pattern, scrap may be the best avenue to pursue. I'd do that even if the flatware in question isn't in perfect condition, but if it's badly worn, scrap value is most likely the best avenue to pursue.

That being said, there's a few things a person needs to know about flatware. Knives, for example, are rarely solid silver. They tend to have stainless blades, with filled handles. Each one could contain less than a half ounce of metal, although there may be patterns that would exceed that amount. I'm not a flatware expert, although I melted one hell of a lot of the stuff in my years of refining precious metals.

It is important that the relative understand that precious metals are sold by the Troy ounce. If you're not familiar with that unit of measure, I'll give a brief outline so you'll have a basic understanding.

The common unit of measure between Troy and Avoirdupois is the grain. There's 7,000 grains in an avoirdupois pound, and 437.5 grains in an Av. ounce, with 16 Av. ounces constituting an Av. pound.

Troy measure dictates 480 grains per ounce, so the Troy ounce is approximately 10% larger than an Av. ounce, and there's only twelve ounces in a Troy pound, which then weighs 5,760 grains. Further, in the Troy system, weights are commonly discussed in terms of pennyweight (dwt). 20 dwt = 1 Troy ounce, with each dwt containing 24 grains.

Sterling silver is an alloy of 92.5% silver and 7-1/2% copper. Regulations dictated that the ratio must be quite precise, but there's often solder joints (knife handles, for example) that may be somewhat lower in content. In order to have reasonable expectations, it's a good idea to assume that the silver content won't be greater than 92%. It should be better than that, but refiners are notoriously dishonest (I had several negative experiences with major refiners through the years).

It is highly unlikely that one would be successful in attempting to deal directly with major refiners. Their fees will kill a deal quickly, and many of them won't do business with anyone not recognized as a dealer in precious metals.

Avoid any of the flash in the pan buyers that are regularly seen at promotional buys. They rarely pay anything of substance, and you're most likely going to get a good screwing. Success may be had by inquiring of a local coin dealership, for they commonly trade in precious metals. Keep in mind, everyone that touches the deal expects to make money, and none of them sell for spot aside from the refiner, so you'll get paid under spot. How much is the question. With gold, with careful shopping you can get as much as 98%. Not sure you can do that well with silver, and most likely you can not. I would suggest that getting even 90% would be a pretty damned good deal. That would be 90% of the value of the silver contained within, so remember that that is not a reflection on the weight of the items, but 90% of 92%, at best.

The relative may also be interested in pursuing the Gold Forum, where the flatware could be offered to members. Silver is in demand because it is commonly used in processing gold. I moderate there, and could keep an eye on things, so they don't spin out of control, so it would be in their best interest to confer with me before posting, so I can set a proper stage. By our nature, we are a cautious bunch, due to the huge number of crooks that are involved in the precious metal market. Those who spam the board are generally banned immediately, but we welcome good and proper offers of precious metals.

Hope this helps some, Joe. I have learned, since selling my refining business, that it's not as easy to deal with these things as it once was. I used to have ready buyers for both gold and silver. That is no longer the case. My almost 18 years since I last refined has put a lot of distance between me and the people I used to know, to say nothing of the 800 mile move from what used to be home.

Good luck!

Harold

A special thanks to Brian Lawson, for letting me know I was being pinged. I do not visit this group much.

Harold

How does one do this? The flatware was made by Tiffany.

I did notice that. The dinner knives and cheese knives do have steel blades. I guess there is no way to know the amount of silver in the handles, except by the make and model.

Yes.

I'd bet that Tiffany's sterling is right on.

How low is in the reasonable range?

I may do this. I have seen the flatware in question, and know its provenance.

Thanks,

Joe Gwinn

Harold,

Fairly well related question, I have nearly a pound of sterling silver from my jewelry days in the late 70's. It was all bought as casting silver. Far as I can recall, it's only been cast once.

It's all sprues, sprue bases, and items that didn't come out as expected. What course would you recommend for selling. It should be worth several hundred dollars, allowing for other folks to make a few bucks. I took my wedding ring from my first marriage to a local jeweler a couple years ago, when gold was around $900/oz, and got next to nothing for it. So they're hardly my first choice for this lot...

I'd like to melt it all into an ingot, cleaning it up some. Thoughts on that vs just selling as is?

Regards,

Jon

Without sounding like I know for sure, you may have just hit the big one. Tiffany is very collectable, although I can't speak with authority that the flatware in question would be good. Here's a link that may help identify the pattern.

What this does is move interest from just flatware to collectables. Move slowly, as there's no shortage of people who will gladly relieve the owner of the goods, all the while knowing a real value.

Do more searches on the net, and if there's a knowledgable antiques dealer in her town, that would be a good place to get an opinion, but, beware. Precious few antiques dealers really know and understand this stuff. It might pay to seek an expert, to ensure that something really good doesn't get passed off for scrap value.

snip---

Right now, don't even think that direction. Had I known you had Tiffany, I likely wouldn't have brought up the scrap value. Lets keep that in reserve until you know the value from a collector's position. Also, there's businesses out there that buy and resell patterns, so you may have luck dumping the entire amount with one transaction at greater than scrap value. Lets move slowly in that regard.

snip---

That can prove to be valuable if the pattern is highly desirable and collectable.

Let me know, Joe.

Harold

Jon,

If the material has been melted, the best you can hope for (in my opinion) would be scrap price, but with silver at a respectable level, you should get one hell of a lot more from it than it cost, even in adjusted dollars. Silver, in the early 70's, was under $2/ounce.

I would expect that most guys that cast sterling would not wish to gamble on re-melting silver that has been previously melted, as each heat deteriorates the quality, finally to the point where it casts with inclusions and must be refined to clean it up. Could be wrong, though, so if you know of any silversmiths near you, wouldn't hurt to ask if they'd be interested. They generally pay over spot for new silver, and more if it's alloyed, so they may be interested in a price slightly under spot. Hard to say.

You might be able to sell the stuff to a coin dealer, but that can be risky, too, for they likely can't test properly, so you're likely to receive a lowball price. It's guaranteed, if you take the stuff to the corner gold and silver buyer, you'll get screwed.

I might make the same suggestion to you---to, perhaps, offer it for sale on the gold forum. I'd think you'd get somewhere around 75% of real value (silver contained within), keeping in mind that no matter who gets the material, it has to be refined. As I suggested to Joe, silver is used in processing gold, so there's a demand for the stuff, in particular if it needs refining. It would be a good idea to let me know if you intend to try selling on the gold forum, so I can blaze a path. Happy to be of service if you make that decision.

Harold

It seems that some homework is in order.

OK.

Thanks. After I do some homework.

Joe

Gunner Asch on Tue, 05 Jun 2012 07:31:18 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As they say about real estate, the two questions are "Value to who, value as what".

How many people are willing to spend top dollar for a torn shirt - if you tell them that this shirt was born by Their Hero. One of the Beatles, Elvis, Vladimir Ullanov, Che, Cher or Charity.

PM sent with questions!

Jon