What's with this?
There was an existing bid which was invisible until the auxtion ended?
Never seen this before
private listing - bidders' identities protected US $3.00
Jul-03-13 13:11:26 PDT
Member Id: ( 78Feedback score is 50 to 99) US $3.00
Jul-06-13 08:07:58 PDT
Starting Price US $1.99
Jul-03-13 08:08:05 PDT
I know nothing about it, except that eBay has been changing
their rules from time to time, and a bunch of people don't
like the changes. But, you will note the hidden bidder
made the same bid EARLIER than yours, and that timing
I have seen any number of things sell for 2X or more the buy it now
price - those who are too cheap to pay the buy it now when the first see
it, end up paying 2 or 3X that price when they finally get it..... go figure
That's called Auction Fever. People get lost in the action and don't
care what price it ends up, as long as they get the item they're
bidding on. Bidding wars are EXCELLENT for sellers and really suck
I had a great thing happen today. A lady negged me because the post
office hadn't delivered her package before she went on vacation. I
stayed calm and pointed out that the package had left my city and been
delivered to another the very next day, as shown by the online
tracking. And I asked her if she would consider changing the negative
feedback. She said OK and I sent the Feedback Change Request through
eBay. She changed it to positive feedback and said that the USPS
delivered the items today! I'm happy.
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
Why's that? Just 'cuz there's no way to cull the crowd or something
about eBay itself?
I wouldn't say I'm enamored by it but I have used it some and have yet
to be disappointed and have always thought I got at least a reasonable
value if not always a steal. It's always been less than what could have
gotten for locally.
I always make sure seller's ratings are in the 99 range or so and avoid
the obvious major large storefronts in favor of individuals who may or
may not obviously be doing it for serious as you or are just flipping
stuff more or less randomly.
I've done everything from the JLG 40H 40-ft boom lift for ~$5K to an
original hand-painted 1920s era lamp fixture hanging glass that matches
ones in the house here that I've never, ever seen anywhere else other
than that one by pure happenstance ($40 and would have given much more
because of the nostalgia factor) to a $0.35 old gate latch that was $5
to ship that I just thought was unique (it's holding the door on the old
shop at the moment).
A bargain not too long ago when was doing some additional wiring in the
barn was a box of EMT couplings and end connectors (NOS) in both 1/2"
and 3/4" that worked out at <$0.50/ea including shipping. They're like
$2/ea at the local farm supply and the electric supply outfit is even
There was an old Delta 14" bandsaw just early this summer that was
clearly in very good shape that sold for $45. I almost drove to Vegas
to get it but the timing was wrong just before had to head to TN for
g'daughter's commencement and just couldn't get it done...I bought a
3/4" spindle Walker-Turner shaper that came out of Old Dominion U's
maintenance shops and had my son who's in Raleigh go to Petersburg,VA to
pick it up and hold it until we made a trip back...it's old but in
perfect functional condition and was $400 whereas a current equivalent
is $2K or thereabouts...
It's like anywhere else, ya' gotta' know what you're looking at. The
only one I was really, really nervous over was the manlift but learned
it was required to pass a full OSHA operational safety check before
could be sold as functional so figured that was a pretty good chance it
would be adequate for the amount of use I'd give it. It turned out to
need a head gasket which was a day's labor and about $50 in parts and
I've now had it for over 10 yrs. Hired hand and I about lived on it for
18 months during the barn reroof and restoration and painting plus
painted the (2-story) house and a lot of tree-trimming that never
otherwise ever get done...
I don't think it's that they don't care; it's that it's very large and
nebulous and therefore nearly impossible to police effectively. It
doesn't help in that regard that it's a whole new cast of characters
I believe the difference is/was that the seller in this case is a
commercial broker and owing to that he falls under a different set of
rules(*). The machine did originate from the Chicago area,
interestingly enough altho the broker thru whom I bought it (and from
which the rental company bought their replacements) is in FL.
I don't think I'd have pulled the trigger w/o onsite inspection otherwise...
(*) I don't know for sure, it may also be that being the multi-state
arrangement means there are additional hoops owing to the interstate
commerce rules coming into play that wouldn't have been if all had been
in one location. All I do know is that it had a just-completed
OSHA-compliance certificate w/ it when it arrived. The head gasket leak
was noted but was deemed a nonsafety issue altho was on a 'future
maintenance' checklist the contractor who did the inspection used.
I talked to the broker several times on various details before bidding
to work out shipping arrangements and discuss concerns of condition,
etc., etc., and to just try to get a feel for what kind of a outfit it
was as far as dealing with. He seemed straight and indicated he'd tried
just selling 'as is' but w/o at least the operational check just wasn't
getting any machines sold at all or only for less than scrap value. So,
it was cheaper to get the operational check pass|fail compared to what
it was to have them re'furbed and if the fail turned out to be only a
single or few inexpensive items he could do them and then re-certify.
As a result he was moving them at a fairly good clip.
There's an OSHA reg whose number I don't know otomh that outlines what
is required as an operational safety check for aerial lifts. That's
what I'm referring to. It basically does what you say you do but notes
conditions that are considered unacceptable such as leaks, jerks, limit
switches nonfunctional, etc., etc., etc., ... It's fairly generic since
it covers all aerial lifts, but if a reputable person does it per intent
it's pretty good indication the machine is, at least, fully functional.
With it is a form/checklist that is to be used, signed and dated and
kept on file w/ the machine. I believe it's required for machines that
are in commercial use or on sites subject to OSHA reg's that this be
done no less frequently than every 30 days.
There's another requirement in (I think CFR 1926(?)) that requires a
pre-shift operator safety check as well. It's basically the pilot
walk-around before taking off kinda' thing.
I'm not saying you (or even the broker in my case) are giving anything
about a safety "warranty"; only that the machine did meet the minimum
outlined in the OSHA reg's covering operational and safety mechanisms.
Clearly you are doing just fine doing what you're doing; I'm not saying
anything at all negative about that.
Rather, from what the broker told me, aiui he as a broker has to be
registered in the states in which he operates and that adds burdens that
you as the casual acquirer/disposer of "stuff" that might include a lift
now and again aren't subject to.
The machine in question had been out of service for some time (months?)
so I was concerned (obviously) about it's operational readiness not
wanting to have to rebuild something drastically from the git-go. I
figured if it mustered the above check done by an outfit who had their
reputation on the line if they falsified such that odds were pretty good
I had at least a working machine to begin with. Turned out it's been
pretty solid. Other than the head gasket (it's an air-cooled gas
Wisconsin V4J) the only thing I've had to do is replace the lift/swing
and now drive controller modules. Each of them has failed now, over the
last 2-3 yrs but it was almost 10 after I had it and the machine is an
'88 model so can't really complain much. Oh, I forgot--I had to replace
a seal kit on the main boom extension cylinder--it's a 20-ft 5" OD 2-way
cylinder so that's a pretty hefty puppy. The local John Deere shop guys
did it for me as I didn't have any way conveniently to rig up and
support it coming out. The seal kit was <$100 so the shop time/labor
was the only real expense. Wasn't too bad...
Well, I guess where it originates isn't quite as I thought--some more
looking seems to indicate that it comes indirectly from OSHA by their
reference ANSI standards and the ANSI standards reference manufacturers'
specifications which are where the typical 30-day routine inspections
and checklists seem to actually come from...
I had just gotten the impression from the broker that it the periodic
inspection was also an OSHA reqm't; near as I can tell relatively
quickly the only one that is there except indirectly is the pre-shift
I think that it is the owner's (buyer's) responsibility to ensure
safety of their equipment. As a reseller, my obligation is to not hide
any known defects and to be forthright in saying what was and what was
Well, yeah, but there are definitely OSHA and other reg's that are
requirements on those owners. That's what I was speaking of. I had
just gotten the impression during the conversation I had w/ him that the
periodic inspections were OSHA-mandated...
And, I repeat, I'm not saying anything about what you needs must do as
an individual on what are essentially private sales...
Again, while I'm not a lawyer or a contractor so it's not enforceable on
me, I'm certain from what the broker did tell me that he has
requirements on equipment he sells. Now again, some of that may be
state and insurance as well as or instead of OSHA...
And only where OSHA has jurisdiction.
As dpb found, it's likely the OSHA requirement is that aerial equipment
be maintained per the manufacturer's instructions and any piece of
equipment not passing the manufacturer's specified safety checks be
removed from service until repaired.
Not all OSHA regulations are overbearing, some are to just maintain
things properly so it's in safe working order.
The difficulty I had in looking is couldn't find a clean straight
interpretation of OSHA reg's for aerial lifts that wasn't either linked
with requests for interpretations which carry one off into the weeds
almost immediately or the bare reg's themselves which are so long and
convoluted I didn't want to take the time to read in their entirety and
try to figure out which paragraph subsection of what section actually
applies to whom and what that isn't modified by some other section or
exception. It's like trying to read NEC on a one-line section--you just
can't do it that way as it's all interwoven.
One can find a zillion forms for the daily/pre-shift operational
checklist and the clear requirement it be done. I found a couple of
prepared forms like the one used on my machine for the general
safety/operation check as well but they weren't so clear about the
mandate for their use.
What I did find was the reference in the OSHA reg's to the ANSI
Standards but there the trail gets cold because the ANSI Standards are
proprietary and the pertinent ones didn't show up except on the ANSI web
site where they're only viewable by purchase. But there's where the
words exist of "following manufacturer's guidelines" which then includes
everything the manufacturer has ever said by reference.
So, at that point I retire from the legal chase--and again, all I was
really trying to do was to explain how I got comfortable-enough w/ the
condition of a complex piece of moderately expensive gear to decide to
purchase sight unseen, _not_ the actual legal basis for OSHA requirements.
That the inspection form refers to OSHA and being on file in compliance
caused me to mention OSHA--if I had only stated "operational/safety
inspection by qualified individual/service vendor" could probably have
avoided the whole sidebar... :)
I just wanted Iggy to be clear that I was and am _NOT_ suggesting he has
any responsibility beyond what he has done nor was I trying to criticize
or imply he wasn't doing something he necessarily should be doing/should
have done. That a large, nation-wide distributor of aerial lifts and
similar gear has other requirements imposed on them that may be either
internally generated or more stringent owing to insurance carriers or
governing bodies from local to state to federal doesn't seem at all
unlikely to me and even if so that doesn't reflect back upon an
operation that doesn't fall into that class of operations.
All in all, sorry I mentioned it...but felt important to try to not
leave a false impression of what I intended comments to say. :)
I think we're still not on the same wavelength, Iggy... :)
I _have_ in my hands the OSHA/vendor-approved checklist for the lift in
question as well as the full original owner's/operator's manuals and the
safety manual plus technical service manuals for the lift, the specific
sub-vendor proportional controls and the specific engine.
Ergo, I'm not lacking in what I know on the particular machine... :)
My pursuit of OSHA mandates after the question was that I did think that
there was a definite unequivocal rule from OSHA for periodic inspection
and documentation of same be onhand for review on demand by OSHA if
requested. I thought I could find a link to that and be done but it
turns out that is more nebulous than I had thought; only the daily
pre-shift operational/site check is the one I actually found direct OSHA
That notwithstanding, _all_ I was intending to do in original post was
indicate as just an example for a moderately expensive/complex piece of
gear how I was able to satisfy myself w/o an on-site inspection of my
own that the lift was functional-enough that I was willing to bid on it
on eBay. That was by relying on the result of a reputable, independent
from the broker, inspection that it met all the conditions on the OSHA
Where we got off track I guess is that when I indicated it was the
broker's requirement to sell the machine as new it came off, apparently,
as if that were an OSHA mandate. AFAIK that is not so and all I
intended was to indicate that the particular broker was required to do
so. At this point I don't know for certain whether that requirement was
one self-imposed by the broker's employer (a national lift brokerage
firm) to either a) cover themselves as much as possible, b) simply
increase the perceived value of a new machine for resale, c) both a) and
b), or d) none of the above and/or some other reason which may or may
not be related to local/state/federal mandates, insurance carriers or
just perceived good business practice. My understanding at the time of
the sale was that it was mandated by the State of IL by his brokerage
being registered there, but that may be a mistaken impression drawn from
a conclusion made from conversation that weren't totally clear. The
"why" wasn't terribly important to me; only that it (the inspection) had
been done by a third party and was reasonably thorough.
However it came to be, the machine was inspected, the results of that
inspection were made available for my perusal as well as other
information on the machine and that was how I came to decide it was in
good enough mechanical shape I was will to bid from afar. Turns out,
that was sufficient at least on this machine that I have been more that
simply satisfied, I have been well pleased. Whether the results would
turn out as good on another is anybody's guess, but I think one could
pretty well count on an operating machine as received by following the
Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.