Ebay - private listing?

What's with this?
There was an existing bid which was invisible until the auxtion ended? Never seen this before
WINNING BID:
    private listing - bidders' identities protected     US $3.00     Jul-03-13 13:11:26 PDT      My Bid:     Member Id: ( 78Feedback score is 50 to 99)      US $3.00     Jul-06-13 08:07:58 PDT          Starting Price     US $1.99     Jul-03-13 08:08:05 PDT
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Rex wrote:

I know nothing about it, except that eBay has been changing their rules from time to time, and a bunch of people don't like the changes. But, you will note the hidden bidder made the same bid EARLIER than yours, and that timing matters.
Jon
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I personally do not like ebay. I also do not know a single ebay seller, who likes ebay. I sell on ebay, because that's where the buyers are, but I do not like it.
i
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On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 16:22:36 -0500, Ignoramus8801

+1 on all that. <sigh> But I do like the premium prices I can get on eBay. I put a low starting price, quintuple that for the BIN, and usually sell it by the BuyItNow. It amazes me every time.
--
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On 7/6/2013 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I have seen any number of things sell for 2X or more the buy it now price - those who are too cheap to pay the buy it now when the first see it, end up paying 2 or 3X that price when they finally get it..... go figure
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That's called Auction Fever. People get lost in the action and don't care what price it ends up, as long as they get the item they're bidding on. Bidding wars are EXCELLENT for sellers and really suck for buyers.
I had a great thing happen today. A lady negged me because the post office hadn't delivered her package before she went on vacation. I stayed calm and pointed out that the package had left my city and been delivered to another the very next day, as shown by the online tracking. And I asked her if she would consider changing the negative feedback. She said OK and I sent the Feedback Change Request through eBay. She changed it to positive feedback and said that the USPS delivered the items today! I'm happy.
--
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
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On 7/6/2013 4:22 PM, Ignoramus8801 wrote: ...

Why's that? Just 'cuz there's no way to cull the crowd or something about eBay itself?
I wouldn't say I'm enamored by it but I have used it some and have yet to be disappointed and have always thought I got at least a reasonable value if not always a steal. It's always been less than what could have gotten for locally.
I always make sure seller's ratings are in the 99 range or so and avoid the obvious major large storefronts in favor of individuals who may or may not obviously be doing it for serious as you or are just flipping stuff more or less randomly.
I've done everything from the JLG 40H 40-ft boom lift for ~$5K to an original hand-painted 1920s era lamp fixture hanging glass that matches ones in the house here that I've never, ever seen anywhere else other than that one by pure happenstance ($40 and would have given much more because of the nostalgia factor) to a $0.35 old gate latch that was $5 to ship that I just thought was unique (it's holding the door on the old shop at the moment).
A bargain not too long ago when was doing some additional wiring in the barn was a box of EMT couplings and end connectors (NOS) in both 1/2" and 3/4" that worked out at <$0.50/ea including shipping. They're like $2/ea at the local farm supply and the electric supply outfit is even pricier.
There was an old Delta 14" bandsaw just early this summer that was clearly in very good shape that sold for $45. I almost drove to Vegas to get it but the timing was wrong just before had to head to TN for g'daughter's commencement and just couldn't get it done...I bought a 3/4" spindle Walker-Turner shaper that came out of Old Dominion U's maintenance shops and had my son who's in Raleigh go to Petersburg,VA to pick it up and hold it until we made a trip back...it's old but in perfect functional condition and was $400 whereas a current equivalent is $2K or thereabouts...
It's like anywhere else, ya' gotta' know what you're looking at. The only one I was really, really nervous over was the manlift but learned it was required to pass a full OSHA operational safety check before could be sold as functional so figured that was a pretty good chance it would be adequate for the amount of use I'd give it. It turned out to need a head gasket which was a day's labor and about $50 in parts and I've now had it for over 10 yrs. Hired hand and I about lived on it for 18 months during the barn reroof and restoration and painting plus painted the (2-story) house and a lot of tree-trimming that never otherwise ever get done...
--


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Lots of headaches with bad buyers, and eBay does not care about that.

I agree with that sentiment.

I do not perform any such operational safety checks on any manlifts I sell. Which is something I clearly disclose.
i
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On 7/8/2013 10:16 AM, Ignoramus19720 wrote:

I don't think it's that they don't care; it's that it's very large and nebulous and therefore nearly impossible to police effectively. It doesn't help in that regard that it's a whole new cast of characters continuously.

I believe the difference is/was that the seller in this case is a commercial broker and owing to that he falls under a different set of rules(*). The machine did originate from the Chicago area, interestingly enough altho the broker thru whom I bought it (and from which the rental company bought their replacements) is in FL.
I don't think I'd have pulled the trigger w/o onsite inspection otherwise...
(*) I don't know for sure, it may also be that being the multi-state arrangement means there are additional hoops owing to the interstate commerce rules coming into play that wouldn't have been if all had been in one location. All I do know is that it had a just-completed OSHA-compliance certificate w/ it when it arrived. The head gasket leak was noted but was deemed a nonsafety issue altho was on a 'future maintenance' checklist the contractor who did the inspection used.
I talked to the broker several times on various details before bidding to work out shipping arrangements and discuss concerns of condition, etc., etc., and to just try to get a feel for what kind of a outfit it was as far as dealing with. He seemed straight and indicated he'd tried just selling 'as is' but w/o at least the operational check just wasn't getting any machines sold at all or only for less than scrap value. So, it was cheaper to get the operational check pass|fail compared to what it was to have them re'furbed and if the fail turned out to be only a single or few inexpensive items he could do them and then re-certify. As a result he was moving them at a fairly good clip.
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I am not sure what you mean by OSHA operational check. I test that stuff and report that it goes up and down, does not leak etc. But I cannot give any safety warranty for liability reasons.
i
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On 7/8/2013 1:02 PM, Ignoramus19720 wrote: ...

There's an OSHA reg whose number I don't know otomh that outlines what is required as an operational safety check for aerial lifts. That's what I'm referring to. It basically does what you say you do but notes conditions that are considered unacceptable such as leaks, jerks, limit switches nonfunctional, etc., etc., etc., ... It's fairly generic since it covers all aerial lifts, but if a reputable person does it per intent it's pretty good indication the machine is, at least, fully functional. With it is a form/checklist that is to be used, signed and dated and kept on file w/ the machine. I believe it's required for machines that are in commercial use or on sites subject to OSHA reg's that this be done no less frequently than every 30 days.
There's another requirement in (I think CFR 1926(?)) that requires a pre-shift operator safety check as well. It's basically the pilot walk-around before taking off kinda' thing.
I'm not saying you (or even the broker in my case) are giving anything about a safety "warranty"; only that the machine did meet the minimum outlined in the OSHA reg's covering operational and safety mechanisms. Clearly you are doing just fine doing what you're doing; I'm not saying anything at all negative about that.
Rather, from what the broker told me, aiui he as a broker has to be registered in the states in which he operates and that adds burdens that you as the casual acquirer/disposer of "stuff" that might include a lift now and again aren't subject to.
The machine in question had been out of service for some time (months?) so I was concerned (obviously) about it's operational readiness not wanting to have to rebuild something drastically from the git-go. I figured if it mustered the above check done by an outfit who had their reputation on the line if they falsified such that odds were pretty good I had at least a working machine to begin with. Turned out it's been pretty solid. Other than the head gasket (it's an air-cooled gas Wisconsin V4J) the only thing I've had to do is replace the lift/swing and now drive controller modules. Each of them has failed now, over the last 2-3 yrs but it was almost 10 after I had it and the machine is an '88 model so can't really complain much. Oh, I forgot--I had to replace a seal kit on the main boom extension cylinder--it's a 20-ft 5" OD 2-way cylinder so that's a pretty hefty puppy. The local John Deere shop guys did it for me as I didn't have any way conveniently to rig up and support it coming out. The seal kit was <$100 so the shop time/labor was the only real expense. Wasn't too bad...
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On 7/8/2013 2:09 PM, dpb wrote:

...
Well, I guess where it originates isn't quite as I thought--some more looking seems to indicate that it comes indirectly from OSHA by their reference ANSI standards and the ANSI standards reference manufacturers' specifications which are where the typical 30-day routine inspections and checklists seem to actually come from...
I had just gotten the impression from the broker that it the periodic inspection was also an OSHA reqm't; near as I can tell relatively quickly the only one that is there except indirectly is the pre-shift operational check.
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I think that it is the owner's (buyer's) responsibility to ensure safety of their equipment. As a reseller, my obligation is to not hide any known defects and to be forthright in saying what was and what was not checked.
i
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On 7/8/2013 5:12 PM, Ignoramus19720 wrote: ...

Well, yeah, but there are definitely OSHA and other reg's that are requirements on those owners. That's what I was speaking of. I had just gotten the impression during the conversation I had w/ him that the periodic inspections were OSHA-mandated...
And, I repeat, I'm not saying anything about what you needs must do as an individual on what are essentially private sales...
Again, while I'm not a lawyer or a contractor so it's not enforceable on me, I'm certain from what the broker did tell me that he has requirements on equipment he sells. Now again, some of that may be state and insurance as well as or instead of OSHA...
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They are mandated by by OSHA to be done by you, the owner.
i
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Ignoramus19720 wrote:

And only where OSHA has jurisdiction.
As dpb found, it's likely the OSHA requirement is that aerial equipment be maintained per the manufacturer's instructions and any piece of equipment not passing the manufacturer's specified safety checks be removed from service until repaired.
Not all OSHA regulations are overbearing, some are to just maintain things properly so it's in safe working order.
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I am still learning stuff, but most OSHA regulations do not seem to be crazy to me.
i
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On 7/8/2013 7:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:

...

The difficulty I had in looking is couldn't find a clean straight interpretation of OSHA reg's for aerial lifts that wasn't either linked with requests for interpretations which carry one off into the weeds almost immediately or the bare reg's themselves which are so long and convoluted I didn't want to take the time to read in their entirety and try to figure out which paragraph subsection of what section actually applies to whom and what that isn't modified by some other section or exception. It's like trying to read NEC on a one-line section--you just can't do it that way as it's all interwoven.
One can find a zillion forms for the daily/pre-shift operational checklist and the clear requirement it be done. I found a couple of prepared forms like the one used on my machine for the general safety/operation check as well but they weren't so clear about the mandate for their use.
What I did find was the reference in the OSHA reg's to the ANSI Standards but there the trail gets cold because the ANSI Standards are proprietary and the pertinent ones didn't show up except on the ANSI web site where they're only viewable by purchase. But there's where the words exist of "following manufacturer's guidelines" which then includes everything the manufacturer has ever said by reference.
So, at that point I retire from the legal chase--and again, all I was really trying to do was to explain how I got comfortable-enough w/ the condition of a complex piece of moderately expensive gear to decide to purchase sight unseen, _not_ the actual legal basis for OSHA requirements.
That the inspection form refers to OSHA and being on file in compliance caused me to mention OSHA--if I had only stated "operational/safety inspection by qualified individual/service vendor" could probably have avoided the whole sidebar... :)
I just wanted Iggy to be clear that I was and am _NOT_ suggesting he has any responsibility beyond what he has done nor was I trying to criticize or imply he wasn't doing something he necessarily should be doing/should have done. That a large, nation-wide distributor of aerial lifts and similar gear has other requirements imposed on them that may be either internally generated or more stringent owing to insurance carriers or governing bodies from local to state to federal doesn't seem at all unlikely to me and even if so that doesn't reflect back upon an operation that doesn't fall into that class of operations.
All in all, sorry I mentioned it...but felt important to try to not leave a false impression of what I intended comments to say. :)
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dpb, my practical suggestion as to what you are required to check per OSHA, is to call a dealer for these manlifts and ask them, they may have some official document for your specific lift.
i
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On 7/9/2013 8:25 AM, Ignoramus13897 wrote:

I think we're still not on the same wavelength, Iggy... :)
I _have_ in my hands the OSHA/vendor-approved checklist for the lift in question as well as the full original owner's/operator's manuals and the safety manual plus technical service manuals for the lift, the specific sub-vendor proportional controls and the specific engine.
Ergo, I'm not lacking in what I know on the particular machine... :)
My pursuit of OSHA mandates after the question was that I did think that there was a definite unequivocal rule from OSHA for periodic inspection and documentation of same be onhand for review on demand by OSHA if requested. I thought I could find a link to that and be done but it turns out that is more nebulous than I had thought; only the daily pre-shift operational/site check is the one I actually found direct OSHA edict on.
That notwithstanding, _all_ I was intending to do in original post was indicate as just an example for a moderately expensive/complex piece of gear how I was able to satisfy myself w/o an on-site inspection of my own that the lift was functional-enough that I was willing to bid on it on eBay. That was by relying on the result of a reputable, independent from the broker, inspection that it met all the conditions on the OSHA 30-day checklist.
Where we got off track I guess is that when I indicated it was the broker's requirement to sell the machine as new it came off, apparently, as if that were an OSHA mandate. AFAIK that is not so and all I intended was to indicate that the particular broker was required to do so. At this point I don't know for certain whether that requirement was one self-imposed by the broker's employer (a national lift brokerage firm) to either a) cover themselves as much as possible, b) simply increase the perceived value of a new machine for resale, c) both a) and b), or d) none of the above and/or some other reason which may or may not be related to local/state/federal mandates, insurance carriers or just perceived good business practice. My understanding at the time of the sale was that it was mandated by the State of IL by his brokerage being registered there, but that may be a mistaken impression drawn from a conclusion made from conversation that weren't totally clear. The "why" wasn't terribly important to me; only that it (the inspection) had been done by a third party and was reasonably thorough.
However it came to be, the machine was inspected, the results of that inspection were made available for my perusal as well as other information on the machine and that was how I came to decide it was in good enough mechanical shape I was will to bid from afar. Turns out, that was sufficient at least on this machine that I have been more that simply satisfied, I have been well pleased. Whether the results would turn out as good on another is anybody's guess, but I think one could pretty well count on an operating machine as received by following the path outlined.
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