Ebay - private listing?

On 7/8/2013 7:02 PM, Ignoramus19720 wrote: ...

Well, yes, I never claimed otherwise...the broker was the de facto owner prior to the sale in that he got the machine in question in return for new ones as trade in.

Altho I still am certain that under some restriction placed upon him as a broker he was required to have a current prior to selling a machine as operational. I never claimed that was an OSHA requirement, only that it was the OSHA reg compliant inspection. I simply used it as an offsite way to get some assurance the machine was functional to the point a recognized vendor who did such inspections as part of their business was willing to place their signature on it. I can go dig up the form and scan it if you would like. :)

As said, the requirement on the broker re: a sale may have been from their insurance, a corporate edict (he was an employee of a nationwide distributor, not independent) or some other--that part I may have had confused. That he distinctly told me that and that I have the inspection report dated the week the lift was listed I am not confused about. :)

I'm not saying and haven't ever said you're required to do same nor that you have any responsibility beyond that you've stated. Again all I was trying to do was to illustrate how I evaluated and made the decision to "pull the lanyard" on that piece of gear w/o seeing it beforehand.

What we have here seems to be a "failure to communicate"... :)

I am still learning stuff, but most OSHA regulations do not seem to be crazy to me.

i

...

The difficulty I had in looking is couldn't find a clean straight interpretation of OSHA reg's for aerial lifts that wasn't either linked with requests for interpretations which carry one off into the weeds almost immediately or the bare reg's themselves which are so long and convoluted I didn't want to take the time to read in their entirety and try to figure out which paragraph subsection of what section actually applies to whom and what that isn't modified by some other section or exception. It's like trying to read NEC on a one-line section--you just can't do it that way as it's all interwoven.

One can find a zillion forms for the daily/pre-shift operational checklist and the clear requirement it be done. I found a couple of prepared forms like the one used on my machine for the general safety/operation check as well but they weren't so clear about the mandate for their use.

What I did find was the reference in the OSHA reg's to the ANSI Standards but there the trail gets cold because the ANSI Standards are proprietary and the pertinent ones didn't show up except on the ANSI web site where they're only viewable by purchase. But there's where the words exist of "following manufacturer's guidelines" which then includes everything the manufacturer has ever said by reference.

So, at that point I retire from the legal chase--and again, all I was really trying to do was to explain how I got comfortable-enough w/ the condition of a complex piece of moderately expensive gear to decide to purchase sight unseen, _not_ the actual legal basis for OSHA requirements.

That the inspection form refers to OSHA and being on file in compliance caused me to mention OSHA--if I had only stated "operational/safety inspection by qualified individual/service vendor" could probably have avoided the whole sidebar... :)

I just wanted Iggy to be clear that I was and am _NOT_ suggesting he has any responsibility beyond what he has done nor was I trying to criticize or imply he wasn't doing something he necessarily should be doing/should have done. That a large, nation-wide distributor of aerial lifts and similar gear has other requirements imposed on them that may be either internally generated or more stringent owing to insurance carriers or governing bodies from local to state to federal doesn't seem at all unlikely to me and even if so that doesn't reflect back upon an operation that doesn't fall into that class of operations.

All in all, sorry I mentioned it...but felt important to try to not leave a false impression of what I intended comments to say. :)

dpb, my practical suggestion as to what you are required to check per OSHA, is to call a dealer for these manlifts and ask them, they may have some official document for your specific lift.

i

I think we're still not on the same wavelength, Iggy... :)

I _have_ in my hands the OSHA/vendor-approved checklist for the lift in question as well as the full original owner's/operator's manuals and the safety manual plus technical service manuals for the lift, the specific sub-vendor proportional controls and the specific engine.

Ergo, I'm not lacking in what I know on the particular machine... :)

My pursuit of OSHA mandates after the question was that I did think that there was a definite unequivocal rule from OSHA for periodic inspection and documentation of same be onhand for review on demand by OSHA if requested. I thought I could find a link to that and be done but it turns out that is more nebulous than I had thought; only the daily pre-shift operational/site check is the one I actually found direct OSHA edict on.

That notwithstanding, _all_ I was intending to do in original post was indicate as just an example for a moderately expensive/complex piece of gear how I was able to satisfy myself w/o an on-site inspection of my own that the lift was functional-enough that I was willing to bid on it on eBay. That was by relying on the result of a reputable, independent from the broker, inspection that it met all the conditions on the OSHA

30-day checklist.

Where we got off track I guess is that when I indicated it was the broker's requirement to sell the machine as new it came off, apparently, as if that were an OSHA mandate. AFAIK that is not so and all I intended was to indicate that the particular broker was required to do so. At this point I don't know for certain whether that requirement was one self-imposed by the broker's employer (a national lift brokerage firm) to either a) cover themselves as much as possible, b) simply increase the perceived value of a new machine for resale, c) both a) and b), or d) none of the above and/or some other reason which may or may not be related to local/state/federal mandates, insurance carriers or just perceived good business practice. My understanding at the time of the sale was that it was mandated by the State of IL by his brokerage being registered there, but that may be a mistaken impression drawn from a conclusion made from conversation that weren't totally clear. The "why" wasn't terribly important to me; only that it (the inspection) had been done by a third party and was reasonably thorough.

However it came to be, the machine was inspected, the results of that inspection were made available for my perusal as well as other information on the machine and that was how I came to decide it was in good enough mechanical shape I was will to bid from afar. Turns out, that was sufficient at least on this machine that I have been more that simply satisfied, I have been well pleased. Whether the results would turn out as good on another is anybody's guess, but I think one could pretty well count on an operating machine as received by following the path outlined.

On 7/8/2013 1:02 PM, Ignoramus19720 wrote: ...

OK, I finally found the reference -- it's not in the 29 CFR 1926 where I thought it would be so was looking in wrong places...

The following can be found in ?Section 6 ? Responsibilities of Owners? in the ANSI Manual of Responsibilities. As noted, this is made part of OSHA reg's by inclusion.

Section 6.7 ANNUAL INSPECTION The owner of an aerial platform shall ensure that an annual inspection is performed on the aerial platform no later than 13 months from the date of the prior annual inspection. The inspection shall be performed by a person(s) qualified as a mechanic on the specific make and model of the aerial platform. The inspection shall include all items specified by the manufacturer for an annual inspection.

...

Section 6.15 RECORD RETENTION

6.15.1 Record Retention. The owner shall date and retain the following records for at least 4 years: (1) Name and address of the purchaser of each aerial platform by serial number and date of delivery; (2) Written records of the frequent and annual inspections and repairs performed. The record shall include deficiencies found, corrective action accomplished and identification of the person(s) performing the inspection and repairs. (3) Written records of repairs accomplished and identification of the person(s) performing the repairs.

I also dug out the inspection form supplied by the broker and it was, in fact an up-to-date annual inspection and included a couple of repaired items I'd forgotten about--replacement of the foot-operated interlock and the tilt indicator lamp.