Gas bottle mounting angles

I have NO expertise to recommend it, but I had my O2 and acetylene mounted horizontally on a portable welding truck for several years without a problem in all kinds of weather. It might be a NO NO, but it always worked well for me.

I swapped one the other day was hydroed in '69. No problem. On many cylinders, the hydrotest cost is factored in.

Grant

I guess my question is mostly about oxygen bottles. IIRC, propane, acetylene and CO2 are all liquid inside the bottle and have to be mounted vertically. OR, could they be mounted at a 45, particularly an acetylene?

My trailer has an O2 and an acetylene mounted vertically. They both were mounted with plate that is about 3/4" thick, and came from some salvaged use. They look like crap, and were gorilla welded on. But I don't like their high profile. The O2 is a full sized tall tank, and the acetylene is stubby, about waist high, but not the fat round one. If I stay with propane, I'll use the shorter tanks anyway, or go with a stubby fat one that won't stand that high anyway. But the O2 just sticks up there way high, and I don't like the leverage it has that way in sudden maneuver driving situations.

I believe that I could mount the O2 horizontally, and it wouldn't matter. Is that correct? I don't use a CO2 on the rig, but down the line, who knows. I do have an acetylene bottle there, but may go to propane. Would the acetylene be okay mounted at a 45?

Steve

"Grant Erwin" wrote

Just the mounts. I'll take some pictures and post them at Flickr before I cut them off. They're stout, but for a welder, they are crudely done. Welding a cylinder directly sounds like an automatic Darwin award nomination. They've been on there so long, the oxygen was hydroed in '96. Gonna be interesting to see what they will do on new cylinders.

Steve

Believe it.

Grant

I don't believe CO2 is in liquid form as usually delivered.

cheers T.Alan

When I used to work in a local gage test shop (pressure, temperature, etc.) we made our own dry ice blocks for temperature tests. This was done by inverting the CO2 bottle and running the output through a two piece block with a filter screen on the exhaust side. When in the normally upright position the tank output is gas only. When inverted the output is _defiantly_ a liquid. (and bloody cold at that )

Regards, Bob rgentry at oz dot net

That's regarded as bad mojo locally. I've never heard a good explanation why though, other than that the gas supplier would rather rent you yet another cylinder, this one with a dip tube running down inside.

Vertically mounted is bad enough for acetylene in a truck. You really ought to leave it parked up and stable for a good while, so as to let the acetone settle back down. I certainly wouldn't use anything other than vertical, if it was regularly getting shaken around before use.

Propane is a liquid and you don't want the liquid to carry over into the regulator either (although it's not such a problem as acetylene). If you need to mount them horizontally (fork-lift truck), the cylinders are specials with an internal "anti dip" tube to reach up into the gas ullage space. These not only have to be mounted horizontally, they always have one particular direction for "up".

Check with a dealer. There may be DOT regulations about transporting pressurized cylinders greater than a certain size in any position other than vertical. It has to do with safety rather than function.

The standard fork lift cylinders I have used supply liquid propane to the vaporizer in the engine. The did tube extends to the bottom of the tank to provide this liquid.

I agree except for the propane tanks and not so sure on CO2.

Forklift engines that are water cooled use liquid LP that is vaporized when run through the water heated vaporizer and the pressure is stepped down and tested with a common 30# pressure gage to be used by a demand style carburetor. Some systems use both a vaporizer and regulator that drops the pressure of a gaseous state of LP and then LP in a gaseous state goes to the carburetor at low pressure depending on the manufacturers specs.

Air cooled engines use a vapor withdraw tank. An air cooled engine regulator usually must be set using a manometer.The regulator drops the gaseous fuel to the carburetor. The higher rate of gaseous withdraw from the tank acts as a leak and freezes and limits horsepower. This is the main reason that liquid is used on water cooled engines.

When you see LP that shows frost, the LP is really boiling away because it boils at an extreme low temperature. Gloves and extra care should be practiced when this condition exists.

When mounting the tank horizontal, the tank has a location hole that must be over a pin at the bottom of the tank bracket or you won't be able to withdraw all of the fuel in the tank. The same tank can be mounted vertical. The drop tube is flexible to pick up in both directions. This is a liquid withdraw tank.

The shut off valve is either mounted in the vapor or liquid hole on the top of the tank itself. Depending on which style tank you order. They both look the same except for the valve mounting.

This is a common misunderstanding. There were some horizontal only tanks that had a bent dip tube years ago. I imagine they have all been replaced by now by the dual use tanks with a flex tube inside.

Valid point :)

This was 38 years ago

regards, Bob rgentry at oz dot net

thank you for the table that was handy and convenient

Operationally the O2 could be upside down and it wouldn't matter since it's just gas in there. What you need to check is the DOT regs since it's on a trailer and I believe that the DOT regs specify that gas cylinders must be secured upright.

over here the rules with regards to the transport of cylinders and such go with a simple set of rules

the rules themselves may not actually impact how that specific cylinder works. But the transport of dangeous products laws usually err on the side of a minimum safe standard. Wher ei'm from that means ANY cylinder for ANY purpose is supposed to be transported OUTSIDE of the passenger compartment and upright. Whether or not it matters its simple and easy to enforce whether breaking the rule is actually "unsafe" or not the rules being followed to the letter are safer and IF a big issue happens the firemen know HOW to respond to what they are facing. and also there is supposed ot be a sign denoting the UN hazardous materials number of what is being transported

In this province there was once a train derailment and fire with a pile of train cars carrying unmarked fuel gases. the spectacular explosions and the impossibilty of firefighters to fight it and the massive evacuations that caused changed the laws here to be extra draconian.

I dont blame them, My recommendation is to follow the recommendations of the local laws on cylinder transport not because its practical not because its pretty but for the simple reason of "BECAUSE THEY SAID SO"

Brent Ottawa Canada

All I know about, and only from personal experience is 20 pound propane "BBQ" cylinders. I carry mine between the passenger seat and the glove box, cushioned with a large "car wash" sponge to avoid marking the glove box. The fill Tech. has even put it there. I have seen him tell others "not in your trunk" and "hold it upright". Gerry :-)} London, Canada

I live in Farm country and a lot of the locals have there tanks mounted at a

45°.

To be on the safe side I would check with the gas supplier, some one there will know for sure.

This excerpt from 49 CFR seems to indicate that there are no orientation requirements for gas cylinders secured in a rack. They specify vertical or horizontal for cylinders apparently secured more generally, but don't specify orientation for cylinders secured in specific racks. The exception notes pressure relief devices on flammable gas cylinders which would apply for propane, and of course functionally acetylene cylinders need to be reasonably vertical to prevent feeding the acetone solvent into the regulator.

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER I--PIPELINE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION PART 177_CARRIAGE BY PUBLIC HIGHWAY

Subpart A_General Information and Regulations

...

Sec. 177.840 Class 2 (gases) materials.

(See also Sec. 177.834 (a) to (j).) (a) Floors or platforms essentially flat. Cylinders containing Class

2 (gases) materials shall not be loaded onto any part of the floor or platform of any motor vehicle which is not essentially flat; cylinders containing Class 2 (gases) materials may be loaded onto any motor vehicle not having a floor or platform only if such motor vehicle be equipped with suitable racks having adequate means for securing such cylinders in place therein. Nothing contained in this section shall be so construed as to prohibit the loading of such cylinders on any motor vehicle having a floor or platform and racks as hereinbefore described. [[Page 813]]

(1) Cylinders. Cylinders containing Class 2 gases must be securely restrained in an upright or horizontal position, loaded in racks, or packed in boxes or crates to prevent the cylinders from being shifted, overturned or ejected from the motor vehicle under normal transportation conditions. However, after December 31, 2003, a pressure relief device, when installed, must be in communication with the vapor space of a cylinder containing a Division 2.1 (flammable gas) material.